Oblivion or Morrowind

[Raist]

Seeing as I can play Oblivion and not Morrowind at the moment due to lack of interest and to much play time. Oblivion is in the lead now. Thanks modders.

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

So basically the whole of OBG is complaining about Oblivion, but they ban you because you don't like Oblivion? I call shenanigans on that one.

Presumably. It's possibly because I provided CONSTRUCTIVE criticism as opposed to mindless flaming, as well as exhibiting dangerous signs of liking good games and being a member of RPGCodex.

There were some great side quests in the game, like the captain in Cheydinhal, the corruption one...

There were a few good ones, but VERY, VERY few. Morrowind's often allowed you to make choices - letting someone live, paying someone's taxes for them, choosing who to side with, choosing which house to join, and it certainly revolved around combat much less. Oblivion was pretty much a medieval combat simulator, which is rather irritating, given the awful combat.

Also, I think you are ignoring the fact that once you rise to the head of a guild in Oblivion that it actually feels like you are the leader of the guild.

Utter rubbish. The mage's guild gave you... what was it... a potion sorter or ingredient generator or something? The Dark Brotherhood had "hey, , yuo can taek teh contract stuffs from teh statue, but theres no punismentz0rz 4 not diong it, which is kind of stupid considering the fact that you're the sole source of contracts for the guild". Otherwise, everyone treated you exactly the same.

Less dialogue? I'm not sure that is entirely right... I mean, you go to Balmora and ask everybody "Latest rumours" and everyone is talking about the same thing. Same with any of the cities, really.

This was an issue, yes, but there was a hell of a lot more dialogue. Vivec and Dagoth Ur's (relatively) long speeches, the paragraphs of lore and backstory NPCs could deliver, both were reduced to the bare minimum of dialogue required to get you started on quests. Not that any dialogue was required, of course, since you just follow the magic green arrow.

[Muad'dib]

There were a few good ones, but VERY, VERY few. Morrowind's often allowed you to make choices

I think there was still that aspect in a lot of missions, I have a bad memory so I can't really think of any examples off the top of my head, admittedly.

My problem with Oblivion was the hand holding. You do a certain thing, and you are told what to do next. Its seriously excessive.

The compass, too, as I have made a thread here, i'd have preferred it to be nautical.

choosing which house to join

That was a cool one. And I know in Morrowind before I had problems joining some guild because I was in another one, too. Can't remember specifics though, but I think people should be restricted in certain ways like that.

I did like in Oblivion how you joined the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild though.
and it certainly revolv

given the awful combat.

Given that this is a Morrowind VS Oblivion thread, and you have already stated that improvements were made in Oblivion for combat, you aren't really strengthening your argument there, really.

Utter rubbish. The mage's guild gave you... what was it... a potion sorter or ingredient generator or something?
The Dark Brotherhood had "hey, , yuo can taek teh contract stuffs from teh statue, but theres no punismentz0rz 4 not diong it, which is kind of stupid considering the fact that you're the sole source of contracts for the guild". Otherwise, everyone treated you exactly the same.

Again, treating this as a Morrowind VS Oblivion thread, tell me how what Morrowind offered was better.

This was an issue, yes, but there was a hell of a lot more dialogue. Vivec and Dagoth Ur's (relatively) long speeches, the paragraphs of lore and backstory NPCs could deliver, both were reduced to the bare minimum of dialogue required to get you started on quests. Not that any dialogue was required, of course, since you just follow the magic green arrow.

That is a valid point, indeed.

Morrowind felt far better to me. The music really sucked me into it, the world felt much better. Comparing the types of plant and animal life found in Vvardenfell compared to Cyrodil makes your arguments of Cyrodil being generic something I can definitely agree with.

Oh, just one last thing too... Do you blame the fact that Oblivion came out on the xbox 360 for the way it is, or are you going to take a more mature approach and realise it was the path Bethesda decided to tread, not the platform in their decision making processes?

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

That was a cool one. And I know in Morrowind before I had problems joining some guild because I was in another one, too. Can't remember specifics though, but I think people should be restricted in certain ways like that.

Let's not forget "Cyrodiilic warrior never casts spell in his life, reaches head of Mage's Guild at level 2".

Given that this is a Morrowind VS Oblivion thread, and you have already stated that improvements were made in Oblivion for combat, you aren't really strengthening your argument there, really.

It was better, but that's really not saying much. In Morrowind, you could play for literally days on end, doing many quests, without getting into combat at all. Oblivion throws it at you right from the starting dungeon.

Again, treating this as a Morrowind VS Oblivion thread, tell me how what Morrowind offered was better.

I didn't suggest it did - you were the one who stated that reaching guild leader felt like it meant something.
Strongholds were a nice touch, mind.

Oh, just one last thing too... Do you blame the fact that Oblivion came out on the xbox 360 for the way it is, or are you going to take a more mature approach and realise it was the path Bethesda decided to tread, not the platform in their decision making processes?

It's a bit of both, I'd say. Console gamers in general prefer simpler, more "streamlined" games, but I know very well that there's plenty of variety in gamer types on both platforms. I do blame the 360 for a few things, though, such as the terrible interface, which was quite clearly designed for the console. On the whole, I'd agree that it was just a design decision on Bethesda's part, and it turned out extremely profitable for them.
It's the same thing I would do, I guess; given the choice between making complex, mature games for a small hardcore audience that fail to make a profit or making Oblivionlikes and raking in the millions, I'd certainly go with the latter.
I'm just bitter that Bethesda were one of the few remaining developers of good RPGs, and they marketed Oblivion as a great, deep, involved, complex game with plenty of content for both audiences. It wasn't.

[melchior1]

I am forced to agree with you CG
combat took a step back, as did just about everything but graphics(which are pretty nice)
I like the game but in no way is it better than MW, maybe in the future when there are thousands of Oblivion mods, it could possibly rival MW "possibly"

[Muad'dib]

cowguru said:

Let's not forget "Cyrodiilic warrior never casts spell in his life, reaches head of Mage's Guild at level 2".

I'm not sure where you get that from, but, frankly i'm not surprised.

It was better, but that's really not saying much. In Morrowind, you could play for literally days on end, doing many quests, without getting into combat at all. Oblivion throws it at you right from the starting dungeon.

Good point.

I don't know about anyone else, but when it came to Morrowind, I could play for a hell of a lot longer in one sit through (hell I wouldn't even realise how long I had played until, well, it had gotten dark and sometimes bright again)

I didn't suggest it did - you were the one who stated that reaching guild leader felt like it meant something.

Comparatively speaking, I think it did.

You used the argument of what was to befall the Dark Brotherhood if you didn't go to find out about what had to be done, though what of the guilds in Morrowind? Its all a suspension of disbelief.

It's a bit of both, I'd say. Console gamers in general prefer simpler, more "streamlined" games, but I know very well that there's plenty of variety in gamer types on both platforms. I do blame the 360 for a few things, though, such as the terrible interface, which was quite clearly designed for the console. On the whole, I'd agree that it was just a design decision on Bethesda's part, and it turned out extremely profitable for them.

In general? Yeah, I guess thats true.

There are still plenty of us who are against shallow gameplay, as you seem to acknowledge.

As for the interface? Well, I didn't mind the PC one on my brief play of it, though I didn't get to play much of that.

It's the same thing I would do, I guess; given the choice between making complex, mature games for a small hardcore audience that fail to make a profit or making Oblivionlikes and raking in the millions, I'd certainly go with the latter.

I think the charging for a mods is an indictment against Bethesda in their quick buck campaign.

Though I also wonder how strong a role 2k had in things. I mean, wasn't there reports before Oblivion was released that 2k were having financial problems?

I'm just bitter that Bethesda were one of the few remaining developers of good RPGs, and they marketed Oblivion as a great, deep, involved, complex game with plenty of content for both audiences. It wasn't.

I see you are against Bioware (or at least their recent games, anyway) perhaps in another thread we'll end up talking about something by Bioware.

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

As for the interface? Well, I didn't mind the PC one on my brief play of it, though I didn't get to play much of that.

Having six items in REALLY BIG FONT on a menu screen isn't really my idea of an ideal interface. :\

I see you are against Bioware (or at least their recent games, anyway) perhaps in another thread we'll end up talking about something by Bioware.

I predict it will involve a villain in a red suit whose name begins with M.

[mastab]

The interface is totally customizable with mods. If we're rating the vanilla game, then I still think the interface is better. It donates more space to each item so they don't look so jumbled and confusing.

Mankar Camoran does wear a red robe.....

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

mastab said:

The interface is totally customizable with mods. If we're rating the vanilla game, then I still think the interface is better. It donates more space to each item so they don't look so jumbled and confusing.

It donates far too much space to each item. Morrowind's interface was hardly "jumbled and confusing" - it was fine. Ugly, but functionable.

As for mods - yes, they help, but modders should ADD to the game, not devote their time to fixing stuff Bethesda should have done better.

[Britney]

oh my topic was resurrected!!

I must say that for the most part I disliked the quests I saw in Oblivion. There was one quest where I had to find out who stole a painting... well, after just speaking to a few possible culprits, it was easy enough to deduce who stole the painting... but instead of being able to solve the quest then and there, the game required me to go to the kitchen of the castle and find paint stains on the rug, along with other seemingly irrelevant evidence...

The Hackdirt quest was disappointing, where you rescue the argonian... it had the potential to be great, but the quest itself was so shallow - after rescuing the argonian, I went back to the underground tunnels to search for the "Dark Ones"... well, there WERENT ANY! Here, the whole point of the quest was to save the argonian from being sacrificed to the "Dark Ones", but then upon further glance there are no Dark Ones. There wasn't even an entrance to the deeper caverns which is where the villager said the Dark Ones reside...

I mean come on, the argonian was never in any danger, because the Dark Ones don't exist! The villagers built all these underground tunnels for nothing!

An alright quest was the Dark Brotherhood quest where you are locked in the mansion and have to kill 5 people. What made it interesting was that you could coax one of them to kill through dialogue, thus enabling you to finish the quest in multiple ways... what would have made it much better, though, would be if you could kill them ALL through coaxing them to kill each other while accompanied with different actions (making one of them jealous, or stealing something from one and blaming it on someone else, etc).

It seems that the quest format in Oblivion has much more potential than what was actually achieved. In Morrowind, the quests have story behind them, make a pilgramage here and learn about why this location is important... help this person out and get a reward tailored to the decisions you made... Oblivion quests on the other hand have no depth. Save an argonian from a non-existant threat. Find out who stole a painting by searching for stains on a carpet, instead of pointing out that one does not gaze at stars during a rainstorm.

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

An alright quest was the Dark Brotherhood quest where you are locked in the mansion and have to kill 5 people. What made it interesting was that you could coax one of them to kill through dialogue, thus enabling you to finish the quest in multiple ways... what would have made it much better, though, would be if you could kill them ALL through coaxing them to kill each other while accompanied with different actions (making one of them jealous, or stealing something from one and blaming it on someone else, etc).

That mission was disappointing. I was hoping for something really special.
I just went upstairs, and saw one of the guests lying down to sleep. so I got out my bow and 1-hit KO'd him with a sneak attack (but that's because ALL DB targets have low heath, so you get more realistic kills). Then I closed the door, still in sneak mode, and somebody else was standing there gawking. So I talked to him.
The idiot didn't find the fact that the black-clad Dunmer assassin - name of "Pwnz0rz Ub3r1337" - had just left the room with the victim in it, in sneak mode, with his glass bow out and glass arrows equipped, leaving a corpse with a glass arrow in it even slightly disturbing, and simply said "Oh NOOOOES! Somebody got PWND! I saw a mudcrab yesterday."
I did enjoy manipulating the last two into killing each other, but it was slightly spoiled by the fact that I only managed to do so because I said the following to each NPC:
I like your hair
Your mum's a cow
I've got big muscles
You're ****ing dead

[Osama Bin Laden]

My question is what happened to all the Dwemer lore in Oblivion? Theres no dwarven dungeons, no new books, and no mystery. Its like they never existed to the people in Cyrodill. I remember before the release of Oblivion, that thousands of fans were asking for more Dwemer lore, books, dungeons, and more clues as to what happened to them. But what do we get in Oblivion? Nothing but some dwarven armor and weapons.

And thats not mentioning any of the other lore, or mysteries that came from the game Morrowind. I know Oblivion was supposed to be its own game, but it does take place in the same world, even the same bloody continent!

Another thing they destroyed in Oblivion was the adventure aspect, I dont want to play a game to see a bunch of trees I can see 10 minutes away from my house, or even when I just look out the window. I want to play a game too see new and exciting areas, deadly creatures, old tombs, expansive cave systems, abandoned mines and towns, towns laid seige too by rebels, not 5000 of the exact same Oblivion gates, with uninspiring mazes of red.

[melchior1]

thedevil696 said:

My question is what happened to all the Dwemer lore in Oblivion? Theres no dwarven dungeons, no new books, and no mystery. Its like they never existed to the people in Cyrodill. I remember before the release of Oblivion, that thousands of fans were asking for more Dwemer lore, books, dungeons, and more clues as to what happened to them. But what do we get in Oblivion? Nothing but some dwarven armor and weapons.

They were replaced by the Aleid. Apparently the Dwemer only hung out in Morrowind.
Here's something mjorly stupid-the guard AI causes them to follow you across the whole continent if you get caught and run, you can never escape. WTF is up with that?
(even if you're in the thieves guild and pay off your fine, you still get the message "can't rest while guards are coming" for like 24 hours)

also what happened to all the flying creatures? Do the Imperials use too much DDT?

[Osama Bin Laden]

melchior1 said:

They were replaced by the Aleid. Apparently the Dwemer only hung out in Morrowind.

Aye, they did, but books, scrolls, jewelry, other aritfacts can still travel on boats, carraiges, horse backs, ect.

[melchior1]

yeah they could.
I guess the Imperials only care about their kickass armor and not their history.

[Cow Guru (Admiral jimbob)]

melchior1 said:

yeah they could.
I guess the Imperials only care about their kickass armor and not their history.

They're too terrified to venture out of their homes. Can't say I blame them... I saw a mudcrab yesterday.

[lucia]

eek said:

edit: scratch that, Morrowind rocks.

;D

The Imperial City was awfully dissapointing.

I think what I liked most about Morrowind was the setting. It was just so different, and I wanted to see what was down that unmarked road, or in a cavern. I didn't get that from Oblivion, since I've done everything in that game already in some form.

[eek]

lucia said:

eek said:

edit: scratch that, Morrowind rocks.

;D

The Imperial City was awfully dissapointing.

I think what I liked most about Morrowind was the setting. It was just so different, and I wanted to see what was down that unmarked road, or in a cavern. I didn't get that from Oblivion, since I've done everything in that game already in some form.

Heh heh...

Yeah, the city felt far too small. Even if it had been the size of Vivec or something, I'd have been impressed, but sadly not.

But I think I prefer Oblivion's wilderness. It feels more wild and dangerous, like you could get lost. The respawning dungeons are better, too, despite the poor profit from looting them... but then again rich folk don't live in smelly caves.
Morrowind just didn't seem to have as many caves and stuff to look at, and once you'd been in one that was it... no more to be had from it. I always left them until later because I wanted to be able to take some decent loot back home, because it simply wasn't worthwhile at lower levels, not to mention you'd probably be killed by the occupants.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Oblivions wilderness wasnt very original though. I mean, go to a park that isnt full of a jungle gym, and youll see pretty much the exact same thing.

I also didnt like that go off the road 1 meter, and theres a monster chasing you. There wasnt much plain exploring, seeing nothing for 10 minutes, then making a great find of an Aeylid ruin filled with crappy to decent loot.

[eek]

Eh, I get the same scenery when I step out the front door, but I like my home comforts!
Well, okay, so there's no trolls or bears round here...

I didn't mind the monster chasing, though. In fact there wasn't really enough of that for me either. I wanted packs of wolves to hunt, not just one poor sod trying to nibble your steel-clad toes off.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Thats another issue. Why do the deer herd, but wolves, pack animals, not? What happened to this so called AI? It just doesnt seem to be there. Why dont the animals group near water holes? Why does a wolf hide alone on the side of a mountain near no food source, or water source?

[eek]

Bloody annoying. I mean, it would have made the scaling better if they spawned groups at higher levels. It was kinda funny how boars went extinct when you got to higher levels!

[Osama Bin Laden]

And another thing. Sluaghterfish are still as annoying as they were in Morrowind, if not worse. <_<

[eek]

Yeah, but there were hardly any around. Come to think of it, the only things in the water were them, some clams, and some flowers in the lakes. None of the underwater caves we got in Morrowind.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Every puddle I step in has 5 of them. The lake around the Imperial City has a thousand of them!