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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Jul 19, 2006 18:29:50 GMT -5
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 19, 2006 18:45:32 GMT -5
Well, I think he has dealt a good blow to the views people have on the Republican party. Consider how much of a power stem cell research has to say Bush felt it necessary to veto it... Heres a look at it I already saw. |
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Twitchmonkey
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Jul 19, 2006 21:08:46 GMT -5
It's ridiculous, but what did you expect?
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Post by thaddius on Jul 19, 2006 21:48:00 GMT -5
Just another case of religious vaules holding back the progression of humanity.
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Post by Hunessai on Jul 19, 2006 21:48:05 GMT -5
"It was the first time in his presidency that Mr Bush refused to sign into law a bill approved by Congress." Interests me more, but I have mixed feelings about it. One the one hand, we have Bush not meddling in legal affairs, which is probably a good thing. But on the other, we have a Congress that has not been properly checked. It saddens me to think that people would rather have existing humans whose lives are hell than a few potential humans who could easily be made again with alcohol and 10 minutes of two people's time. The truth is, a grown human is worth more than an unborn one. Let's make a comparison: Grown humans are capable of work, thought, and making humans. Pre-humans are not. Grown humans have survived to adulthood. Pre-humans might. Grown humans have consumed valuable resources, such as land, food, and education. To lose them would be to lose that investment. Pre-humans have just consumed some nutrients from their mother's womb, so "losing" them is no big cost. Jirt, he's issued plenty of executive orders so that parts of legislation aren't enforced (Like the recent ban on torcher). Oh yeah. *Smacks forehead.* |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Jul 19, 2006 21:48:15 GMT -5
Him to be one the side of big business, and to let big business research it without boundaries! thats the best way to get research done! Specially if its something that can make money.
Seriously though, I expected nothing better of him.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 19, 2006 21:52:18 GMT -5
"It was the first time in his presidency that Mr Bush refused to sign into law a bill approved by Congress." Interests me more, but I have mixed feelings about it. One the one hand, we have Bush not meddling in legal affairs, which is probably a good thing. But on the other, we have a Congress that has not been properly checked. I'm not sure I agree there... I'd say its more a case that Bush has found something he felt his morals had to win on. |
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 19, 2006 22:20:42 GMT -5
Considering about 75% of Americans support stem cell research, I think that we're seeing a move that is stupid politically as well as scientifically. "It was the first time in his presidency that Mr Bush refused to sign into law a bill approved by Congress." Interests me more, but I have mixed feelings about it. One the one hand, we have Bush not meddling in legal affairs, which is probably a good thing. But on the other, we have a Congress that has not been properly checked. Jirt, he's issued plenty of executive orders so that parts of legislation aren't enforced (Like the recent ban on torcher). |
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melchior1
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Post by melchior1 on Jul 19, 2006 22:35:03 GMT -5
Him to be one the side of big business, and to let big business research it without boundaries! thats the best way to get research done! Specially if its something that can make money. Seriously though, I expected nothing better of him. you aren't serious about big business are you they f@#$ everything up |
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Post by Vinya on Jul 19, 2006 22:38:34 GMT -5
little balls of cells that are getting thrown out anyway are not humans, and certainly don't have souls. Its like not eating an omelette because the eggs that made them, even though they weren't fertilized, could have been chickens  |
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mastab
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Post by mastab on Jul 19, 2006 22:46:20 GMT -5
little balls of cells that are getting thrown out anyway are not humans, and certainly don't have souls. Its like not eating an omelette because the eggs that made them, even though they weren't fertilized, could have been chickens So it's not a good thing that I eat unfertilized human eggs? Uh-oh..... |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Jul 19, 2006 22:47:59 GMT -5
you aren't serious about big business are you they f@#$ everything up I am actually, if it spins a profit, theyll research it faster than any government, or government funded organisation could even imagine. You want something researched, ask big business to do it. |
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 19, 2006 22:50:59 GMT -5
I don't see a point arguing it, so I'm just going to keep my opinion to myself and stay out of this Most-Definitly-Going-To-End-In-Flames-And-Tears post.
I'd rather not listen to people yell 'NO ITS NOT A PERSON!!111!' 'YES IT IS!111!' all day...
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Jul 20, 2006 1:57:31 GMT -5
I haven't actually seen any of that here, goldskywalker. I think most of us here are more intelligent and reasonable than Bush. Hell, most conservative Republicans support some stem cell research. I don't understand how a man can sit there and say he supports life while signing away the ability to save lives. The foetuses were aborted anyway..they're just gonna be thrown out. Why not use them for medical research?
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Post by lucia on Jul 20, 2006 2:02:07 GMT -5
I think its consistent. The man said what he thought of it, said what he'd do, and did it. I don't agree with it, but I admire that he has the balls to do what he thinks is right.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 20, 2006 4:35:40 GMT -5
I haven't actually seen any of that here, goldskywalker. I think most of us here are more intelligent and reasonable than Bush. Hell, most conservative Republicans support some stem cell research. I don't understand how a man can sit there and say he supports life while signing away the ability to save lives. The foetuses were aborted anyway..they're just gonna be thrown out. Why not use them for medical research? Oh no. No no no. Nice try, buddy, but I already know it. It will turn into a flame war. Trust me. I'm not going to say who will start it, that'd be mean, but someone will say something and... it'll just go downhill. I agree, the kid's dead, he can't use his cells, but there's other parts to this research than that. And with that, I bid you adieu.  |
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 20, 2006 8:28:15 GMT -5
I think its consistent. The man said what he thought of it, said what he'd do, and did it. I don't agree with it, but I admire that he has the balls to do what he thinks is right. I'd admire if as President he wouldn't make his morals stop progress. |
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Post by Anon on Jul 20, 2006 10:12:08 GMT -5
Well, there's three things to this. Him saying his opinion, him stopping the bill and his actual opinion.
On the one hand, he's making his actual moral values known, probably a bad political decision in this case, which is good of him.
However, on the other hand, he's totally put his foot down on it. While he should make it known he's against it, if everyone else wants it, he shouldn't veto it unless he has popular support.
So...I think it was good of him to say what he meant despite a possible loss of popularity, but I would say he went to far in totally stopping it.
On the third hand (woah, alien) I think that his actual opinion is wrong - and stopping this is, as people have said, holding back progression for nothing at all. There's no such thing as a soul, and anyway, they're only bundles cells at that point - they can't think or feel. The research is more important.
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Post by morty14 on Jul 20, 2006 11:41:56 GMT -5
Cure for terminal diseases > "saving" clumps of cells that have not any more of the traits of life as do the thousands of skin cells you lose every day.
That's my take on the matter.
Bush is being himself though. You know what to expect from him, this isn't way out of the ballpark.
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 20, 2006 12:21:49 GMT -5
I think its consistent. The man said what he thought of it, said what he'd do, and did it. I don't agree with it, but I admire that he has the balls to do what he thinks is right. Actually, it is anything but consistent if you compare it with his past veto threats. |
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 20, 2006 12:28:18 GMT -5
o.O FDR has like, 300 vetoes. Are vetoes some sort of objective or something?!
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Post by bigphatty on Jul 20, 2006 13:05:20 GMT -5
I think it's great. He stands up for what he believes in despite his downfall in the polls, warfare, and speech impedement etc. and that deserves the upmost respect. Even if I was an athiest I would rather see a man stand up for what he believes in than give in to others. It's kind of like an adult version of school if you think about.
But from my p.o.v to take life an "possibly" make on better is not right at all. Even if it was 100% that it'd work, I still wouldn't support it.
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Post by Vinya on Jul 20, 2006 18:14:59 GMT -5
but its not life.....and those embryos will never BE people. They'll be thrown out. The veto doesn't stop the production of embryos, it simply stops curing people who ARE real and ARE alive. If it wasn't for idiots thinking little balls of cells have souls, my cousin could be alive today.
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Post by Vinya on Jul 20, 2006 18:16:50 GMT -5
I think its consistent. The man said what he thought of it, said what he'd do, and did it. I don't agree with it, but I admire that he has the balls to do what he thinks is right. Actually, it is anything but consistent if you compare it with his past veto threats. Ratty's right. And lets just say just because a world leader stands up for what he thinks is right still doesn't make it right... |
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melchior1
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Post by melchior1 on Jul 20, 2006 19:23:30 GMT -5
his one veto.....and he shoots the potentially most helpful field meicine's got in the face with it
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of TEH CUTENESS!!
