Gold_skywalker
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Posts: 1,121
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 19, 2006 23:35:48 GMT -5
Well, it is the Middle East. That place is Bat-Shot Crazy. Agreed. Does anyone realistically see a viable solution all ends might come to terms with before blowing themselves all up over there? I sure don't. Well... there is... one option. Turns to n00kiler Subamamamarine. Presses Button...
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 21, 2006 21:38:34 GMT -5
The whole war makes me sick. Both Hezabollah and Israel are wrong. Israel, for invading Lebanon Hezabollah, for provoking them when they know the Zionists like to go on these little crusades. Hopefully, between Lebanon, Syria, and Iran, Israel gets put in it's place. ".. put in their place."? And what do you mean by that? Last I checked, Israel has never acted offensively against a single Arab nation since it's creation. Only has it attacked another nation when it was dead obvious that nation was going to attack Israel and that attack was going to succeed without an intervention. www.historyguy.com/arab_israeli_wars.htmlExcept for the Israeli bombing of the Osirak Nuclear Facilities in Iraq during the '80's ( And if Israel had not done this, it would have been probable that Iraq would have nuclear capabilities in the Gulf War. ), Israel has acted rather responsibly. Nobody really cares about what's put down in UN Resolutions, I think. Israel pulled out of Lebanon willingly and Hezbollah promised to cease raids in to Israel and cease rocket attacks. All of this was verified by the United Nations. Get this: HEZBOLLAH LIED. The UN refuses to move, so it's up to Israel to put a stop to it. And why does Israel need to be 'put in it's place'? I assumed it's place was at the forefront of whooping everyone else's in the Middle East. You never see Israel vowing a Holocaust of Palestinians, but Mr. President in Iran vows it on the Jews every other day of the week. And as to UN troops going in: The UN needs to learn how to butt out. Whenever the UN sends in troops, it usually gets worse. Just look at Somalia. In Africa, 500 contractors kept the peace in Sierra Leone ( I think it was Sierra Leone, maybe Cote D'Ivorie. ), yet the UN kicked 'em out and installed a peacekeeping force. The 'peacekeeping' force of Palestinian soldiers got it's asses handed back to them. I wouldn't mind seeing Syria and Iran going to war with Israel. I think it'd be funny to see Israel trash them. ( Again. )
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Post by lucia on Jul 21, 2006 21:58:57 GMT -5
The Israli nations' creation could be considered an "offensive" from certain points of view, and considerable brutality (I'll assume you're familiar with Ariel Sharon?) has been a hallmark of Israeli operations. Bulldozing houses, blowing up government buildings, targeting civilians, yeah, I'm glad someone wants to see more innocents "put in their places" with cruise missiles and artillery shells.
But people dying is all good if you get a good laugh out of it, right?
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Gold_skywalker
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Darth Caedus
Posts: 1,121
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 22, 2006 1:30:28 GMT -5
Almost-exactly
Violating arab homeland, is an offensive act. They damn well knew what would happen, their neighbors are religious fundamentalists with Guns!
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Post by thaddius on Jul 22, 2006 1:49:50 GMT -5
Almost-exactly Violating arab homeland, is an offensive act. They damn well knew what would happen, their neighbors are religious fundamentalists with Guns! Thats why the united states government wastes 5 bn a year on their army.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 22, 2006 2:22:35 GMT -5
Indeed, when it would just cost 1,000-1 billion to Nuke the middle east.
Why are we bothering when we could just take the easy way out?
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Twitchmonkey
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Jul 22, 2006 2:35:48 GMT -5
Indeed, when it would just cost 1,000-1 billion to Nuke the middle east. Why are we bothering when we could just take the easy way out? My guess? The violation of international law, the increased international hatred of our country and the 10,000 years of sucide bombings. I also blame Britney Spears.
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Gold_skywalker
Squire
Official Forum Socialist
Darth Caedus
Posts: 1,121
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 22, 2006 2:42:53 GMT -5
Damn her.
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Post by Hunessai on Jul 22, 2006 10:04:34 GMT -5
Indeed, when it would just cost 1,000-1 billion to Nuke the middle east. Why are we bothering when we could just take the easy way out? A massive nuclear attack is not humanistic in any way. Civilians would suffer greatly not only from the initial blasts but the fallout afterwards.
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 22, 2006 14:31:00 GMT -5
The Israli nations' creation could be considered an "offensive" from certain points of view, and considerable brutality (I'll assume you're familiar with Ariel Sharon?) has been a hallmark of Israeli operations. Bulldozing houses, blowing up government buildings, targeting civilians, yeah, I'm glad someone wants to see more innocents "put in their places" with cruise missiles and artillery shells. But people dying is all good if you get a good laugh out of it, right? You do realize the hilariousness in the fact that the Israeli nation being created is a 'offense'? Does anyone else realize that the "Moslem World" spreads throughout the entire Middle East and a great majority of North Africa? Even the Pacific, with countries such as Indonesia, are inundated with Moslems. To say that Israel shouldn't exist on a sliver of land just off the sea is ridiculous. Palestinian Arabs have every right to live within Israel and Israel has told them this. Palestinian Arabs also have the right to move. But, of course, people never seem to realize that Jews aren't the only ones who serve in the Israeli Defense Forces. There are, indeed, Moslems and Christians who serve under the Israeli flag. However, those rights do not extend to attaching bombs to your children's chests and walking them in to crowded markets. As to the bombing of cities and the bulldozing of houses: It's a war. Israel has been dropping leaflets on Lebanon telling people to get the Hell away from Hezbollah 'terrorists', or their lives will be put in danger. Don't blame Israel for taking out Hezbollah, blame Hezbollah for taking refuge around civillians. If it came down to it, I'd pray that my Government took out the enemy, rather than sit back and let me get bombed. Israel doesn't have to drop leaflets. Israel doesn't have to warn people over the radio and television. Israel is not carpet bombing Beirut with B17's and B29's. Israeli soldiers aren't in the middle of Lebanese streets blowing the heads off children. What Israel is doing in terms of trying to warn Lebanese citizens to get the Hell out of Dodge is commendable. Israel is targetting Hezbollah 'terrorists'. Hezbollah is launching Katyusha rockets willy-nilly at Israeli cities. Hezbollah BROKE THEIR AGREEMENT. It's damn time for heads to roll.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 22, 2006 18:17:52 GMT -5
Indeed, when it would just cost 1,000-1 billion to Nuke the middle east. Why are we bothering when we could just take the easy way out? A massive nuclear attack is not humanistic in any way. Civilians would suffer greatly not only from the initial blasts but the fallout afterwards. Not just that, but it's Britney Spear's fault. Otherwise, we'd have the green light. ...Better idea: Nuke. Hollywood. 'Nuff said. Yup, if you count 200 Lebanese civillians and 8 Canadians 'Terrorists'.
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Post by Hunessai on Jul 22, 2006 22:45:19 GMT -5
As to the bombing of cities and the bulldozing of houses: It's a war. Just because politicians have named the destruction of property and people within a given area a "war" does not in any way make what they are doing any less evil/immoral/or-what-have-you. Whether in a war or not, getting your house burned down and you and your family getting maimed, raped, or killed is still a bad thing. Instead of waving these actions away with the notion that it is war, and these are what war does, look for the reasons at the root of all the violence instead and try to explain away the horrors being committed from that point of view.
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 22, 2006 22:46:33 GMT -5
Yup, if you count 200 Lebanese civillians and 8 Canadians 'Terrorists'. You seem to have either misunderstood me. Hezbollah is setting up shop in heavily populated areas. This being cities where there's a high concentration of people. Hezbollah is launching their rockets from these points, using civillians as 'shields'. Israel has to launch their own countermeasures to keep their own citizens from being blown to Kingdom Come by Hezbollah's rockets. Israel is trying to target specific areas where Hezbollah are firing these rockets. Israel is also giving civillians more than ample time to get the Hell out of Dodge, as I've already said. Don't be surprised that Israel cares more about it's own populations safety than the safety of Lebanon's people. When push comes to shove, Israel will defend her people. EDIT: Missed your post, Jir Tan. The fact that Israel kept it's end of the bargain with the UN Resolution speaks words about how it's less of an evil. Israeli troops are not in the business of maiming, raping, and murdering Palestinian/Lebanese citizens. Where did you get this bit of information? Root of the problem: Hezbollah fires rockets in to Israel, breaking their end of the UN Resolution. Hezbollah also captures two Israeli soldiers and takes them in to Lebanon. Israel, obviously, gets pissed and goes after their soldiers. Again: Hezbollah are launching rockets and missiles in to Israel with the intention of killing as many civillians as possible. Israel is launching missile attacks and engaging in a land war to stop rocket attacks. It's hardly Israel's fault that Hezbollah sets up shop in cities.
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Post by Hunessai on Jul 22, 2006 23:01:48 GMT -5
I meant what I said in general, but I understand what you are getting at.
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Post by thaddius on Jul 23, 2006 1:17:26 GMT -5
Israel is also giving civillians more than ample time to get the Hell out of Dodge, as I've already said. Don't be surprised that Israel cares more about it's own populations safety than the safety of Lebanon's people. When push comes to shove, Israel will defend her people. Kindly sir, you are in no position to say that. I am not aware of where you live but I will imagine that it is somewhere in the 'western' world. You enjoy the luxury of having a protected house, safe water, abundant food and above all a high level of safety. As is the case in much of the 'western' world your family probably does not hold strong roots to one particular area or plot of land. Saying that people should be expected to leave the very land that their families has been occupying for generations, perhaps hundred years just because two Israeli soldiers were captured is beyond outrageous. The way that Israel prances about in sovereign territory is culpable for much of the turmoil and unrest in the middle east. They do not have the right to start an international conflict with a nation when a terrorist group was responsible for abducting TWO soldiers (in spite of the fact that thousands of Lebanese people lay in Israeli prisons, captured on their own soil). If my name were ratwar i would give you a cookie, but I'm not. I will leave it at good day.
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 23, 2006 2:07:37 GMT -5
Israel is also giving civillians more than ample time to get the Hell out of Dodge, as I've already said. Don't be surprised that Israel cares more about it's own populations safety than the safety of Lebanon's people. When push comes to shove, Israel will defend her people. Kindly sir, you are in no position to say that. I am not aware of where you live but I will imagine that it is somewhere in the 'western' world. You enjoy the luxury of having a protected house, safe water, abundant food and above all a high level of safety. As is the case in much of the 'western' world your family probably does not hold strong roots to one particular area or plot of land. Saying that people should be expected to leave the very land that their families has been occupying for generations, perhaps hundred years just because two Israeli soldiers were captured is beyond outrageous. The way that Israel prances about in sovereign territory is culpable for much of the turmoil and unrest in the middle east. They do not have the right to start an international conflict with a nation when a terrorist group was responsible for abducting TWO soldiers (in spite of the fact that thousands of Lebanese people lay in Israeli prisons, captured on their own soil). If my name were ratwar i would give you a cookie, but I'm not. I will leave it at good day. My grandparents were Polish refugees from WWII. I've grown up knowing what it's like to have a tie/bond for a certain country/plot of land/ideal. The Israeli Defense Force is not telling Lebanese people to, "Get the Hell out of Dodge and stay out. This territory is now ours." They're telling them to get out for now, until the fighting has cooled down. It's obviously dangerous to stick around when Israel and Hezbollah are shooting at each other. So it's best to run and come back another day. Again: The Israeli attack on Hezbollah is because of a culmination of factors. Hezbollah broke it's agreement to cease it's rocket attacks on Israel. Hezbollah also broke the agreement again when they took two Israeli soldiers captive. Israel has the right to defend it's citizens. The Israeli Prime Minister has stated that the Israeli ground forces will only stay in Lebanon until the Lebanese Army or a Multinational force comes to garrison the area. To say this is purely Israel's fault is outrageous in of itself. Israel did not ask Hezbollah to launch rockets in to Israel and blow up it's own people. And there are thousands of Lebanese citizens in Israeli jails? I'll assume you mean Palestinian? If not, where did you learn this information?
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Post by lucia on Jul 23, 2006 12:19:44 GMT -5
The Israli nations' creation could be considered an "offensive" from certain points of view, and considerable brutality (I'll assume you're familiar with Ariel Sharon?) has been a hallmark of Israeli operations. Bulldozing houses, blowing up government buildings, targeting civilians, yeah, I'm glad someone wants to see more innocents "put in their places" with cruise missiles and artillery shells. But people dying is all good if you get a good laugh out of it, right? You do realize the hilariousness in the fact that the Israeli nation being created is a 'offense'? I put it in quotes because that's a point of view some people have, but I do not. And of course I knew that Muslims live all over the place. There's also Jews outside of Israel; to use your argument, why can't they go somewhere beside that piece of land?
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 23, 2006 12:26:25 GMT -5
I put it in quotes because that's a point of view some people have, but I do not. And of course I knew that Muslims live all over the place. There's also Jews outside of Israel; to use your argument, why can't they go somewhere beside that piece of land? Because there is no other country set up to harbor Jews safely. And, it's the ancestral home of the Jews. While there's a multitude of Moslem countries.
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Post by lucia on Jul 23, 2006 12:39:49 GMT -5
I put it in quotes because that's a point of view some people have, but I do not. And of course I knew that Muslims live all over the place. There's also Jews outside of Israel; to use your argument, why can't they go somewhere beside that piece of land? Because there is no other country set up to harbor Jews safely. And, it's the ancestral home of the Jews. While there's a multitude of Moslem countries. A multitude that doesn't want the Palestinians, though.
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 23, 2006 13:12:04 GMT -5
A multitude that doesn't want the Palestinians, though. Because they have a tendency to blow themselves up in crowded markets to try and prove a point.
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Post by Britney on Jul 23, 2006 13:16:11 GMT -5
A multitude that doesn't want the Palestinians, though. Because they have a tendency to blow themselves up in crowded markets to try and prove a point. not to go off topic, but I think sirdabrowski is really cool Love the avatar too!
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Post by lucia on Jul 23, 2006 13:19:43 GMT -5
A multitude that doesn't want the Palestinians, though. Because they have a tendency to blow themselves up in crowded markets to try and prove a point. Because of the Israelis. We gave them weapons and armor that were more powerful than what they had, so they resorted to that kind of tactic. Everyone is at fault here, no matter how you spin it. Hezbollah, and Hamas.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 23, 2006 15:36:09 GMT -5
I put it in quotes because that's a point of view some people have, but I do not. And of course I knew that Muslims live all over the place. There's also Jews outside of Israel; to use your argument, why can't they go somewhere beside that piece of land? Because there is no other country set up to harbor Jews safely. And, it's the ancestral home of the Jews. While there's a multitude of Moslem countries. Germany. You could probably guilt-trip them into giving them Schelswig-Holstein, or NiederSachsen. Maybe even Sachsen-Anhalt.
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Post by sirdabrowski on Jul 23, 2006 16:42:16 GMT -5
Germany. You could probably guilt-trip them into giving them Schelswig-Holstein, or NiederSachsen. Maybe even Sachsen-Anhalt. Setting up a Jewish homeland next to the country that once tried to exterminate the Jews. Brilliant plan. That's right up there with the, "Let's Fight Tanks With Paratroopers" plan. And the same problems would have arisen. If you put it up in Schelswig-Holstein, the Danes would have complained that the Jews got the territory they used to own. Plus, it would have been too close to the Eastern Bloc. However, Jews have a historical and cultural bond to Israel. One that can not be denied. Britain controlled Israel, so it was an obvious choice for Israel to be a Jewish homeland. The Palestinians don't have to blow themselves up to prove a point. Regardless of how much technology Israel has, the Palestinians should have realized that talking calmly to Israel gets them more than blowing everything up with small children. Off-Topic: The avatar is of Dr. Strangelove. Wonderful movie. And yes, I agree, I am very cool. I am also very humble and modest.
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Post by lucia on Jul 23, 2006 20:17:49 GMT -5
Germany. You could probably guilt-trip them into giving them Schelswig-Holstein, or NiederSachsen. Maybe even Sachsen-Anhalt. If you put it up in Schelswig-Holstein, the Danes would have complained that the Jews got the territory they used to own. So complaints by the Danish are more valid than the ones of the Palestine? Sounds a bit racist to me. [/Cheap shot] I see your point though, but I still don't think Israel has been quite fair either. A lot of their policies are discriminatory to Arab-Israelis, and many politicians in Israel of Arab descent are openly called terrorists by some of the extremist parties. Suicide bombs are wrong, but so is much of what Israel has done.
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