Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 12:09:30 GMT -5
I'll not bother making this a poll, this thread is for discussion, not confirming numbers one way or another. Anyway, I am in favour of research on animals, and I have a website you ought to look at... This one. Its short, it just goes over myths that go around, and some factual responses to them. I'd encourage people to read the points there (there are only 11 after all) or at least, the ones that you were worried about. If you question the legitimacy of any of the points, please raise your points citing sources to the contrary. I brought this over from TES and I am sure we'll be able to make a good discussion out of it.
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Post by bigphatty on Jul 16, 2006 13:16:58 GMT -5
Yes it's right. So is testing on people on death row, but that's off topic.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 13:24:24 GMT -5
Indeed, that'd be worth a topic on its own, too.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Jul 16, 2006 14:08:02 GMT -5
I'm far from in favour of Animal Research, for once I wish that humans would just bite the bullet and have the drugs tested out on ourselves. Nothing to do with how animals are treated or anything, I just think we should be responsible for our own lives. If that means us having to have testing done, then so be it.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 14:12:24 GMT -5
Did you read the link?
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Post by lucia on Jul 16, 2006 14:17:57 GMT -5
Those "facts" didn't have much in the way of sources.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Jul 16, 2006 14:18:01 GMT -5
Yes, it's *nothing* to do with science or anything, but I just find it annoying how humanity tests on animals. We should test on ourselves rather than delegating it to something else that can't choose.
It's the only thing I have an entirely moral standpoint on, regardless of science.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 14:24:22 GMT -5
Those "facts" didn't have much in the way of sources. www.rds-online.org.uk/pages/faq.asp?i_ToolbarID=8&i_PageID=82#mylink3Yes, it's *nothing* to do with science or anything, but I just find it annoying how humanity tests on animals. We should test on ourselves rather than delegating it to something else that can't choose. It's the only thing I have an entirely moral standpoint on, regardless of science.
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Post by lucia on Jul 16, 2006 14:26:54 GMT -5
Point taken. I just didn't notice any footnotes.
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Post by Britney on Jul 16, 2006 14:35:28 GMT -5
If we are making something to benefit animals, then by all means test it on animals.
If we are making something to benefit people, then it should be tested on people.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Jul 16, 2006 14:39:04 GMT -5
If we are making something to benefit animals, then by all means test it on animals. If we are making something to benefit people, then it should be tested on people. ^ My point.
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Muad'dib
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There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 14:41:55 GMT -5
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Ratwar
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Horkers Rule!
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 16, 2006 14:50:44 GMT -5
Well, if y'all are willing to line up and have experimental drugs tested on you, go ahead, but personally, I value my life.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 14:52:25 GMT -5
Well, if y'all are willing to line up and have experimental drugs tested on you, go ahead, but personally, I value my life. When you put it like that............. ;D
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Post by eek on Jul 16, 2006 15:59:27 GMT -5
I'm far from in favour of Animal Research, for once I wish that humans would just bite the bullet and have the drugs tested out on ourselves. Nothing to do with how animals are treated or anything, I just think we should be responsible for our own lives. If that means us having to have testing done, then so be it. They do test on humans all the time. Haven't you seen it on the news? That story about the bunch of young folk who took a really bad reaction to the drugs they were testing? Sure, they get paid for it, but these guys were in blinding agony because something went wrong.
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Jul 16, 2006 16:01:33 GMT -5
We do test on humans! In the movies! Im all for testing on animals, as long as its not done to see the animal suffer.
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Muad'dib
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Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 16:03:18 GMT -5
They do test on humans all the time. Haven't you seen it on the news? That story about the bunch of young folk who took a really bad reaction to the drugs they were testing? Sure, they get paid for it, but these guys were in blinding agony because something went wrong. Also, people use the argument that testing on humans would be far better than testing on animals, because the results will be "100% accurate." Which seems like it is right, but actually isn't. Something might work on one person, and not another. We have to rely on less than perfection with humans or animals, and seeing as what I posted the majority of testing is, I don't see the issue with testing on animals. Also, as I posted, the fact that medicines are found for animals along the way is also great.
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Post by eek on Jul 16, 2006 18:50:38 GMT -5
I'm far from in favour of Animal Research, for once I wish that humans would just bite the bullet and have the drugs tested out on ourselves. Nothing to do with how animals are treated or anything, I just think we should be responsible for our own lives. If that means us having to have testing done, then so be it. They do test on humans all the time. Haven't you seen it on the news? That story about the bunch of young folk who took a really bad reaction to the drugs they were testing? Sure, they get paid for it, but these guys were in blinding agony because something went wrong. Here's the story, for those who are curious. I don't have any strong feelings either way about animal testing, to be honest. Cruelty, on the other hand, I can't stand. Both seem to go hand in hand quite often, but they don't need to.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 19:28:49 GMT -5
I thought I had posted in this thread... Guess not :\ Anyway, as I had said, cruelty to animals and animal research aren't synonymous. I also have a link to Penn & Teller: Bullsh*t! here. It deals mostly with PETA, but it has some on medical research as well. Great video. Language warning, though.
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Post by morty14 on Jul 16, 2006 19:49:51 GMT -5
I'm for animal testing if the animals were bred for the specific use of testing. If they were taken from the wild, I am against it.
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Gold_skywalker
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Official Forum Socialist
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 16, 2006 22:02:48 GMT -5
I'm apathetic, but you know what really grinds my gears? The ALF. If any of you join those Terrorist wackos I swear, I will club you like a baby seal.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 22:04:03 GMT -5
PETA support them. Check out the video I linked on the previous page.
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melchior1
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Post by melchior1 on Jul 16, 2006 23:55:43 GMT -5
On the topic of human testing, I recently watched The Constant Gardner which *spoiler* is about the testing of unsafe experimental drugs on dirt poor African people who really had no other option.....D*&n Corporate America........the jerks........they killed everyone in their way *endspoiler*
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 16, 2006 23:59:05 GMT -5
Ah, the "lovely" pharmaceutical companies... Not quite the same, and if you view animal research like you do corporate big wigs, then theres no point me trying to argue to show you why I think medical research is good.
Though, you did say human testing, so who knows? I might have picked you up wrong.
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Jul 17, 2006 1:05:22 GMT -5
Medical tseting, and pharaceutical companies go hand in hand for me. I really dont care if they test their drugs on poor people in some third world country though. Its not my problem yet. As long as its not causing pain that they could have prevented, I have no problem with testing it on people across the world. Ofcourse, you all know me and my morals, nonexistant.
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