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Post by morty14 on Jul 11, 2006 15:15:16 GMT -5
@muad'dib: USA didn't join the war in Europe until Germany declared war on us O.o
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 11, 2006 15:47:33 GMT -5
@muad'dib: USA didn't join the war in Europe until Germany declared war on us O.o Oh, wow. I'm stupid, and here I was thinking it was after Pearl Harbour. How foolish of me. No, I know it was Pearl Harbour, and I know Pearl Harbour wasn't carried out by Germans.
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 11, 2006 16:03:48 GMT -5
We didn't join the war in Europe until December 11, 1941 when Germany Declared war on us. Obviously, since December 7, 1941 was the date of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and it was the US declaration of war against the Japanese that caused Germany to act, the US joining the war in Europe was almost a direct consequence of Pearl Harbor. I say almost because the Germans didn't have to declare war according to the Tripartite Pact.
Also, it can be argued that the US was basically already involved in the war, due to such things as the lend lease act. World leaders could almost be assured that the US was going to enter the war at some point in time on the side of the allies, especially if FDR stayed in office.
Do to these facts, it is safe to say that the attack on Pearl Harbor caused the involvement of the US in a war with Germany, although this statement is not totally factual. (Seriously though, anyone that thinks that the US was going to stay out of the war in Europe doen't realize how great of a politician FDR was).
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 11, 2006 16:08:50 GMT -5
Hm, well, my historic knowledge isn't as up to the mark as i'd have hoped. It was always my interpretation that the US got involved because of Pearl Harbour, and until then were not involved. Hm, ok, then. Thanks for clearing that up
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 11, 2006 16:59:09 GMT -5
@muad'dib: USA didn't join the war in Europe until Germany declared war on us O.o I do believe we declared war on the Japanese, and then the Germans declared war on us.
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Post by Britney on Jul 11, 2006 17:22:30 GMT -5
We didn't join the war in Europe until December 11, 1941 when Germany Declared war on us. Obviously, since December 7, 1941 was the date of the attack on Pearl Harbor, and it was the US declaration of war against the Japanese that caused Germany to act, the US joining the war in Europe was almost a direct consequence of Pearl Harbor. I say almost because the Germans didn't have to declare war according to the Tripartite Pact. Also, it can be argued that the US was basically already involved in the war, due to such things as the lend lease act. World leaders could almost be assured that the US was going to enter the war at some point in time on the side of the allies, especially if FDR stayed in office. Do to these facts, it is safe to say that the attack on Pearl Harbor caused the involvement of the US in a war with Germany, although this statement is not totally factual. (Seriously though, anyone that thinks that the US was going to stay out of the war in Europe doen't realize how great of a politician FDR was). Wow, I'm impressed you know all that (especially the scholarly arguments that America was already involved in the war due to the lend-lease). Is WWII history an actual interest of yours, or were you forced into learning it via an evil nanny?
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 11, 2006 18:28:15 GMT -5
@muad'dib: USA didn't join the war in Europe until Germany declared war on us O.o I do believe we declared war on the Japanese, and then the Germans declared war on us. Well, according to Wiki
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 11, 2006 18:48:43 GMT -5
Wow, I'm impressed you know all that (especially the scholarly arguments that America was already involved in the war due to the lend-lease). Is WWII history an actual interest of yours, or were you forced into learning it via an evil nanny? An actual interest, though it is actually a more broad interest in history than a specific interest about WW2. Although I will admit that I had to look up the date that Germany declared war on and the name of the pact between Germany, Italy, and Japan.
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Post by lucia on Jul 12, 2006 0:05:56 GMT -5
Hm, well, my historic knowledge isn't as up to the mark as i'd have hoped. It was always my interpretation that the US got involved because of Pearl Harbour, and until then were not involved. Hm, ok, then. Thanks for clearing that up That was sort of the "excuse", or the rationale, depending on what spin you want on it. Some conspiracy types like to think FDR let it happen, so he could have a reason to go to war. I say bullshit, but who knows.
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 12, 2006 0:22:31 GMT -5
Hm, well, my historic knowledge isn't as up to the mark as i'd have hoped. It was always my interpretation that the US got involved because of Pearl Harbour, and until then were not involved. Hm, ok, then. Thanks for clearing that up That was sort of the "excuse", or the rationale, depending on what spin you want on it. Some conspiracy types like to think FDR let it happen, so he could have a reason to go to war. I say BS, but who knows. DH, considering that we were decoding Japanese Naval codes before the war, the fact that the Japanese threaded war after our oil embargo, that there was a declaration of war siting in the Japanese embassy (it was supposed to be delivered before the attack), and that we had 8 battleships in Pearl Harbor (but no carriers) either FDR knew or he should have known and he was acting like he did know for some unknown reason. I'm not one to support conspiracys, and without the smoking gun (which this definitely lacks) it is a conspiracy, but I still think that it is very likely that he knew.
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Post by mastab on Jul 14, 2006 19:53:00 GMT -5
I'm not frightened, and I live in California where his Tapeodong(Sp?) missles can hit. , type 'o dong. For an evil dictator he sure is good at making funny names for mass-murder machines. Hitler should have named the V2 Happy Bunny, and he would have won the war. Back on subject, the US's ICBMs can shoot down any missle Lil Kim can throw at us. Hell, the missle that was supposed to reach Alaska blew up in the Sea of Japan, didn't it? As for 'liberating' Koreans from a dictator, I say we don't. Our system of invading countries and giving them our government has never worked efficiently in the past.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 14, 2006 22:58:55 GMT -5
I'm not frightened, and I live in California where his Tapeodong(Sp?) missles can hit. , type 'o dong. For an evil dictator he sure is good at making funny names for mass-murder machines. Hitler should have named the V2 Happy Bunny, and he would have won the war. Nobody's Gay for Mole-man, but he is funny-- to an extent.
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Post by morty14 on Jul 15, 2006 13:34:25 GMT -5
Back on subject, the US's ICBMs can shoot down any missle Lil Kim can throw at us. Hell, the missle that was supposed to reach Alaska blew up in the Sea of Japan, didn't it? ICBMs don't shoot down missiles Inter Continental Ballistic Missile You are thinking of ABMs [ Anti- Ballistic Missle] like the Patriot and Aegis systems.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 15, 2006 14:34:32 GMT -5
Indeed, ICBMs are the things ABMs shoot down.
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Jul 15, 2006 16:02:41 GMT -5
Indeed, ICBMs are the things ABMs shoot down. Actually it is more of a 'try' to shoot them down... Nothing definite about it
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Post by ShadowLynx on Jul 15, 2006 16:57:51 GMT -5
50% chance is it not?
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Post by morty14 on Jul 15, 2006 23:10:39 GMT -5
Actually it is more of a 'try' to shoot them down... Nothing definite about it I hear the Sprint system is actually quite good, but some retarded planner put the only one in a spot we can never use it... I'm constantly amazed at the stupidity of the human race.
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Post by comike14 on Jul 17, 2006 10:38:15 GMT -5
Forget Korea--Kim is an attention-whore. Keep an eye on them I guess, but there's far more important things to worry about right now.
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 17, 2006 10:40:04 GMT -5
Like Iran, Comike?
I'd reckon there's a lot more to fear than Iran in North Korea, though i'm thinking i'm jumping to an incorrect conclusion with Iran.
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Post by comike14 on Jul 17, 2006 10:44:48 GMT -5
Iran is a threat, but look at Syria. So here it is, Isreal is pissing off the whole Islamic world. Syria is going to jump in to help Hezbolla before too long, seeing as how Isreal is beating the crap out of them. Iran and Syria have a treaty stating that if either is attacked or goes to war, the other will too. So Syria hops in, so does Iran.
We have an unspoken treaty that if Isreal gets into a real war on it's own soil, we help defend her, so there we are. In open war with Iran, Syria, Lebenon, and Palestine. And it won't stop there, I guarantee it. Keep your eyes on the news to see where this goes, but North Korea should be the least of our concerns at the moment.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 17, 2006 10:46:26 GMT -5
Woah, comike, I hadn't heard anything like that, and that is a troubling thought, and something I can guarantee i'll be looking out for.
Thanks for the info.
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Post by comike14 on Jul 17, 2006 10:50:00 GMT -5
I have my Google homepage set to give me the top 6 stories around the world, and 5 of them are different things going on with Isreal right now... Scary stuff, if you ask me.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 17, 2006 11:26:41 GMT -5
My condolences go out to Lebanon and Palestine. Scary stuff indeed...
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 17, 2006 11:29:05 GMT -5
Iran is a threat, but look at Syria. So here it is, Isreal is pissing off the whole Islamic world. Syria is going to jump in to help Hezbolla before too long, seeing as how Isreal is beating the crap out of them. Iran and Syria have a treaty stating that if either is attacked or goes to war, the other will too. So Syria hops in, so does Iran. We have an unspoken treaty that if Isreal gets into a real war on it's own soil, we help defend her, so there we are. In open war with Iran, Syria, Lebenon, and Palestine. And it won't stop there, I guarantee it. Keep your eyes on the news to see where this goes, but North Korea should be the least of our concerns at the moment. Indeed. For once in my life, I hope the U.S. loses, and that's not Anti-American, it's Anti-Israeli.
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Post by Alter-Ego on Aug 2, 2006 10:52:49 GMT -5
I think US will do everything to prevent a war with North Korea.
One reason: civilians.
If the war starts, at least hundreds of thousands of civilians will die. Over million of dead civilians is very likely. Maybe even millions will die.
South Korea's capital, Seoul, is only 45 kilometers from the border. It's population is 10 million. 45 km is in range of artillery.
If the war starts, North Korea's artillery will "turn the city to sea of flames" as North Korea said. After that they'll probably deploy mines there with artillery making rebuilding very very hard.
I believe civilians of North Korea will probably do everything to fight against US forces when they invade North Korea meaning lots of them will die too.
Another reason: it would be one hell of a big war.
North Korea has the fifth-largest army in the world. It has 1.08 million active soldiers, 4.7 million soldiers in reserve, 189 000 in paramilitary, 5.9 million soldiers in total. It also has thousands of tanks, artillery and the largest submarine fleet in the world.
It also has weapons of mass destruction. Chemical weapons. Mustard gas and so on. They may have nuclear missiles but you can't be sure from that.
It's true that their equipment is old but they have numbers. Numbers is more important than modern technology.
Gentlemen, possible war with North Korea isn't a little war.
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