North Korea: What to do?

[lucia]

No, he was the assistant Defense Secretary who claimed the Iraqis would rebel and hand the country over to United States forces if they sent Green Berets to capture oil fields. 400 soldiers, and he thought we could conquer the country.

He was eventually dumped and is the head of the World Bank.

[Ratwar]

archangel said:

If you guys seem so keen to help others...

Fix the problems Bush caused in Iraq.
Finish Burma (Nothing happened there when people demanded peace.)
Finish the Congo War in which 1000+ people each day.

Yeah... I was wondering that. Why is it that the US is so concerned about Nth Korea when it was a stable government. Every has a job. There is infrastructure. There is a medical system. People don't die if they keep their mouth shut. There is also a fantastic education system.

Then you get countries like Dem. Congo, Zimbabwe etc. Why don't the American's help those countries? People run every where. There is no home unlike Nth Korea where everyone is granted one. There is no safety, Government troops gun you down because of your 100 people clan. Nth Korea has one of the most efficient police forces. People there die of starvation. Sure Nth Korea has not a lot of food. But you can feel better that every has the same amount. In Congo also rival factions roam the streets and there is no infrastructure. No national pride. In Nth korea. People believe in something. They know if they dont' speak anything bad, good comes to them...

I think that Communism has no wrongs. Just a bunch of severe idiots exaggerating it.

You see, the US is worried about North Korea because, at heart, Americans are jackasses. We don't really give a crap about how many people die in Zaire/Dem. Rep. of Congo/Former Belgian Colony in Central Africa. We care about threats to us. You see, as long as they're just killing each other (and not hurting our foreign possessions), we really don't care. Now North Korea may be able to attack US soil, therefore, they are a threat to Americans, so we care. As for Communism having no wrongs, pick up a decent economics book.

[Gold_skywalker]

People don't die if they keep their mouth shut.

If they keep their mouths shut? Oh, and what if they DON'T?

-_-'

[Gold_skywalker]

ratwar said:

archangel said:

If you guys seem so keen to help others...

Fix the problems Bush caused in Iraq.
Finish Burma (Nothing happened there when people demanded peace.)
Finish the Congo War in which 1000+ people each day.

Yeah... I was wondering that. Why is it that the US is so concerned about Nth Korea when it was a stable government. Every has a job. There is infrastructure. There is a medical system. People don't die if they keep their mouth shut. There is also a fantastic education system.

Then you get countries like Dem. Congo, Zimbabwe etc. Why don't the American's help those countries? People run every where. There is no home unlike Nth Korea where everyone is granted one. There is no safety, Government troops gun you down because of your 100 people clan. Nth Korea has one of the most efficient police forces. People there die of starvation. Sure Nth Korea has not a lot of food. But you can feel better that every has the same amount. In Congo also rival factions roam the streets and there is no infrastructure. No national pride. In Nth korea. People believe in something. They know if they dont' speak anything bad, good comes to them...

I think that Communism has no wrongs. Just a bunch of severe idiots exaggerating it.

You see, the US is worried about North Korea because, at heart, Americans are jackasses.

And damn well proud of it.

[ShadowLynx]

lucia said:

Wait, North Korea is a stable government? Dude, most of the country doesn't have electric power, the health system is abominable, there's rampant corruption, and most money is wasted on missile programs. And saying "well, since everyone's starving, that makes it equal, and equality is good" is a BS argument.

How do you know that DH? Where have you heard that? Most definitedly from a West media source. They actually have electric source. They health system is actually surprisingly adequate and yes there is corruption. Everywhere has corruption. And it's small bribery not the one's like Enron. I personally know someone who's actually been in Nth Korea (my grandad who's visiting tomorrow) and he says it's mostly exaggerated. Nth Korea actually has one of the best road systems in all of Asia. It's pollution is well controlled too. The percentage of money spent on military is tiny compared to America and England's build up. Not even 10% of it.

I'm going to visit Nth Korea in 2008. Trying to bribe a way in.

[Gold_skywalker]

You never answered my question.

[Kained But Able]

I say we go in all guns blazing like in Afganistan and Iraq and get loads of innocent people killed. Or you know, maybe concentrate on improving relations with North Korea and maybe improving our defence to ensure we would be able to shoot down any missiles if they were shot our way.

[Ratwar]

archangel said:

lucia said:

Wait, North Korea is a stable government? Dude, most of the country doesn't have electric power, the health system is abominable, there's rampant corruption, and most money is wasted on missile programs. And saying "well, since everyone's starving, that makes it equal, and equality is good" is a BS argument.

How do you know that DH? Where have you heard that? Most definitedly from a West media source. They actually have electric source. They health system is actually surprisingly adequate and yes there is corruption. Everywhere has corruption. And it's small bribery not the one's like Enron. I personally know someone who's actually been in Nth Korea (my grandad who's visiting tomorrow) and he says it's mostly exaggerated. Nth Korea actually has one of the best road systems in all of Asia. It's pollution is well controlled too. The percentage of money spent on military is tiny compared to America and England's build up. Not even 10% of it.

I'm going to visit Nth Korea in 2008. Trying to bribe a way in.

So, your friend and Grandfather have travelled extensivily in North Korea? Or have they just been in certain areas? As for the military spending, it might not be even close to the amount the US spends, but compared to percentage of GDP, the one in North Korea is MUCH higher.

[morty14]

goldskywalker said:

If they keep their mouths shut? Oh, and what if they DON'T?

Basically this:

I think that Communism has no wrongs.

It doesn't, unfortunately the name has been corrupted by people who aren't communist and just pretend to be. *coughLeninStalinMaocough* North Korea isn't communist. Nor is Cuba or China or Vietnam. The USSR wasn't communist. Sorry friends, but communist = Marxist =/= Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist. Game over.

[lucia]

archangel said:

lucia said:

Wait, North Korea is a stable government? Dude, most of the country doesn't have electric power, the health system is abominable, there's rampant corruption, and most money is wasted on missile programs. And saying "well, since everyone's starving, that makes it equal, and equality is good" is a BS argument.

How do you know that DH? Where have you heard that? Most definitedly from a West media source. They actually have electric source. They health system is actually surprisingly adequate and yes there is corruption. Everywhere has corruption. And it's small bribery not the one's like Enron. I personally know someone who's actually been in Nth Korea (my grandad who's visiting tomorrow) and he says it's mostly exaggerated. Nth Korea actually has one of the best road systems in all of Asia. It's pollution is well controlled too. The percentage of money spent on military is tiny compared to America and England's build up. Not even 10% of it.

I'm going to visit Nth Korea in 2008. Trying to bribe a way in.

No actually. Al-Jazeera reported that during the earthquakes, thousands of people were starving, and they refused aid by the US. As for the roads, someone who posted a story about their trip to N Korea (sadly I cannot find the link) mentioned "funny how in Capitalistic Germany, our roads our pristine, whereas North Korea's are terrible.

[ShadowLynx]

Yeah, grandfather was only allowed to visit Pyongyang.

Biased I know. No. North Korea is a pretty crappy country I have to admit that. (Bloody Kim Jong Il). I'm just saying it isn't as crappy as people let out to be. You also have to spend a lot of money on military. 1/10 of their own population is in the armed forces. Also military infra is like 30% of their economy.

Most of their roads are actually okay. You know why? First there is no cars using them. Second they need a speedy road system so they can put their troops in over the country if they are attacked.

Marxism stated a pretty good economic solution in Capital V1. But yes Stalinism basically stuffed the whole thing up. Collectivisation NEVER works...

[Ratwar]

archangel said:

Yeah, grandfather was only allowed to visit Pyongyang.

Biased I know.

Ahh, that explains the differing view points. That area is VERY different from the rest of the country. I think it is safe to say that the people outside of the capital are a lot worse off than those inside. That's why they allow people to visit it.

[Gold_skywalker]

th3undon3on3 said:

I say we go in all guns blazing like in Afganistan and Iraq and get loads of innocent people killed. Or you know, maybe concentrate on improving relations with North Korea and maybe improving our defence to ensure we would be able to shoot down any missiles if they were shot our way.

Last I checked, the U.S. hasn't invaded yet.

Recently, of course.

[Gold_skywalker]

morty14 said:

goldskywalker said:

If they keep their mouths shut? Oh, and what if they DON'T?

Basically this:


.

Thank you for answering my 'question'. I was aiming for Linxy to say it, really, but thanks nonetheless.

[ShadowLynx]

ratwar said:

archangel said:

Yeah, grandfather was only allowed to visit Pyongyang.

Biased I know.

Ahh, that explains the differing view points. That area is VERY different from the rest of the country. I think it is safe to say that the people outside of the capital are a lot worse off than those inside. That's why they allow people to visit it.

The best places to live in Nth Korea is probably Pyongyang and the border between China and Nth Korea.

[Britney]

I don't think there is anything that the US (or the world) can do to prevent a nuclear disaster from occuring. They are able to put it off for a while, but not forever. Just as sooner or later some nut shoots up a McDonalds with an AK47, some nut will sooner or later build a nuclear bomb (or something as deadly) and use it against others. Technology can be used for good or evil (i.e. airplanes), and there's not much that can be done about that. Even if social equality was achievable, there would still be crazies out there...

My advice: If you are that concerned about survival, move to a place that won't be a primary target... and pray you get lucky...

[morty14]

A nuclear attack may someday happen, but I doubt nuclear warfare ever will. Only people without a place to call home or hold dearly would use a nuclear weapon. That's why I don't think a muslim extremist would ever use a nuke. They fear the fact that the USA could nuke Mecca. Or Saudi Arabia in general. Now you might say "Well the USA wouldn't nuke an ally... blah" But I think if a nuke destroyed a city like New York City, suddenly oil wouldn't be so important

[WitchBoy]

As far as I'm concerned Korea will never attack America, just because it's a simple truth that would be the absolute death of that country.

It's the same reason I don't think Saddam ever would of attacked the US and Castro never has attacked.

Self-preservation of power is most important to a dictator, attacking America is contrary to keeping power.

[Muad'dib]

Yeah, but Germany didn't have to attack America to start World War II. It was Poland.

[WitchBoy]

America still supported a degree of isolationist policy at that time, now America has become "world police".

[Muad'dib]

thiefonaleash said:

America still supported a degree of isolationist policy at that time, now America has become "world police".

America didn't join into World War II for some time, and yes, America has become World Police.

I've no problem with the idea of that, except the way its carried out.

North Korea actually has nukes. They are a genuine concern, but i'm not saying to definitely go in, its a damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[WitchBoy]

In my opinion Korea is more of less just stroking it's nuclear capability-peen and just trying to provide a buffer against American interference in their affairs.

[Muad'dib]

I'd not so easily cast aside all doubt.

[WitchBoy]

America wasn't quite the powerhouse it is now in 1938, I'm not saying there is no danger, but situations have drastically changed to the point that past examples are hard-pressed to apply.

[Ratwar]

thiefonaleash said:

In my opinion Korea is more of less just stroking it's nuclear capability-peen and just trying to provide a buffer against American interference in their affairs.

For me to believe that North Korea is prosuing nuclear weapons capabilitys to insure peace, they would have to start making substantial moves toward peace in other realms. This would include opening up their country to foreigners and lessening their military presense on the 38th parallel. I see no reason to believe that they wish for a defensive buffer, while they continue to be passively agressive against their southern neighbors.

In any case, the proliferation of nuclear weapons is unacceptable no matter what the reason is. It is unacceptable even if the case of it being used is almost 0%. The more nuclear weapons we have in the world, the more likely it is for them to fall into the wrong hands. Terrorists don't have a home country to attack. They don't care about their own lives. If they got a nuclear weapon, the cost to the free world would probably be measured in millions of lives and trillions of dollars.