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Post by lucia on Jul 6, 2006 9:13:25 GMT -5
Well, they've done it. Fired nukes, and medium range conventional missiles over Japan. According to officials interviewed by the NY Times ( linky), the most advanced missile imploded a minute or so after being launched, but the design is still capable of reaching California or Alaska, according to "experts". So what should we do? The US *was* going to shoot them down, since the display was more symbolic than anything, but N Korea fired them during poor weather, which was a surprise, I guess. Bush decided not to hit the launch bay with missiles, though, so that option for now looks out of the question. I think we should definitely look into removing him from power, since he's bad for his people, and for the region.
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Post by Justice on Jul 6, 2006 9:20:56 GMT -5
I can see us going to war with NK very soon, we should kick Bush off and get someone with balls to join office
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Post by Hunessai on Jul 6, 2006 11:04:55 GMT -5
''As a sovereign country, this is our legal right and we are not bound by any international law or bilateral or multilateral agreements.''
I agree.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Jul 6, 2006 11:05:11 GMT -5
Remove who, kim jong il or bush? The thing about north korea is they beleive kim jong il's father was a god, they are all brought up in grade school to belive that thier leaders are gods and to follow them merciously... If you fly to north koreas only tourist destination you will be handed out pamflets about kimg jong ills father and how great he was. Besides that one tourist destination, the whole of north korea has no lights at night time. There are countless prison camps where children and grand children are punished for decades for their pants and grandparents crimes, they are also constently subjected to endless chemical and biological weapon tests which basicaly means they are endlessly tourtured untill one day they feed a group some poisoned lettace which liquifys their insides. North korea constantly trys to flex its mucles in order to create fear and unrest in our countries like making fake neucular explosions. South koreas border undergoes weekly chemical and biological weapon attack drills in order to prepair their citizens agaisnt the inevidable. To sum it up, korea is a ing crazy place. No amount of deterence will stop them, their leaders are sick and twisted and their citizens are brainwashed and constantly fed propaganda. They arent like iraq, dealing with north korea would mean REAL fears of chemical and biological weapons, not just "zomg my names iz teh bush, iraqies gotz mah wmds". Basicaly the way I see it, any action or inaction will not stop korea from doing something insane. This isnt an easy decision.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Jul 6, 2006 11:06:21 GMT -5
Why bother? Honestly, it isn't our place to interfere with their politics...
That said, I doubt there's much we can do. If they want to fire them, nothing we say or do is going to stop them.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 6, 2006 18:07:55 GMT -5
Well, they've done it. Fired nukes, and medium range conventional missiles over Japan. According to officials interviewed by the NY Times ( linky), the most advanced missile imploded a minute or so after being launched, but the design is still capable of reaching California or Alaska, according to "experts". So what should we do? The US *was* going to shoot them down, since the display was more symbolic than anything, but N Korea fired them during poor weather, which was a surprise, I guess. Bush decided not to hit the launch bay with missiles, though, so that option for now looks out of the question. I think we should definitely look into removing him from power, since he's bad for his people, and for the region. He's nuts, but I don't think he'll engage in Nuclear warfare.
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Post by eek on Jul 6, 2006 19:48:59 GMT -5
Nothing. I don't think any country should interfere with any other, unless it is a threat to the others' security and safety. If Korea don't point their guns at us, or anywhere that would cause us harm, then as far as I'm concerned, they can do what they want.
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Post by morty14 on Jul 6, 2006 20:13:00 GMT -5
Ok, I realize you all think Kim is insane (which he probably is) but do you think even Kim would be stupid enough to use nuclear weapons on another country? Let's see, pick a city, any city, that would be worth having your entire country turned basically into radioactive plate glass. Think of one yet? Yeah, didn't think so. Even if he someone got 'zomg teh ub3r missile!!!11!' that could reach anywhere on earth, you think he would have his ENTIRE NATION nuked into a lifeless, radioactive piece of worthless land in exchange for getting to take out ONE city? Come on now. MAD still works here. In fact, pretty much the only time MAD wouldn't work is with a group that had no place to call home. Even muslim extremists have the fear that we might decide oil isn't worth it anymore and turn the entire Middle East (save Israel) into one massive radioactive parking lot. I think that is the singular good thing about Bush in this case, no one can actually expect what kind of he'll do for little to no real reason. *coughIraqcough* I hate to say it, but Bush's retarded nature has an upside.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 6, 2006 22:46:05 GMT -5
Read meh post...
Bush is mentally handicapped? News to me.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 7, 2006 12:13:04 GMT -5
GAH!!![/i]
I hate this issue. No, don't feel bad about bringing it up, i'm not trying to say that, i'll still be thinking of what I think is best on it, like every other issue in my head.
Damn it though, arg!
Ok, i'll get to something other than jibberish.
I would like to say that we should do nothing. But, I wouldn't jump in that direction too quickly. I mean, those who forget history are doomed to relive it.
History I say? Yeah, history. Nazis? Building up power after World War 1 and Europe knew about it, but left it off. Didn't even get involved for a long time, I believe until Poland was invaded? (Correct me if i'm wrong)
Anyway, thats that risk. Leave the time bomb, and it still blows.
What then? Risk an all out war? Well, i'd like to think no. I hate, hate, hate war, and the idea of its necessity.
But realistically, is it necessary? Possibly.
I'm not finished on this topic, looking forward to more on it.
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Post by morty14 on Jul 7, 2006 17:36:48 GMT -5
Bush is mentally handicapped? News to me. Let me help you read my post: Not his literal mental health, although it could probably be agrued his a bit on the slow side (which is what retarded truly means, despite current connentation). At least for the leader of the world's only superpower. In any case, I was speaking more of his stupid actions than his actually ability to think. [see above however on that topic...]
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Post by ShadowLynx on Jul 7, 2006 20:32:14 GMT -5
I think that North Korea has their own rights to develope Nuclear weapons and ICBMs like Taepodong 2 missiles to propel them. It's well within in their own rights to do so. I feel America is meddling in other countries affairs again. Nth Korea won't back down from any economic sanctions or anything because it's already a blatantly crappy country.
I like to state that President Bush persistently labels other countries Axis of Evil when he doesn't look at his own countries records. President Bush says America supports Democracy. This is blatantly wrong. America has supported a lot of dictatorships in the past so they would not let Communism enter. E.g. Nicaragua and Philipines. President Bush loves to meddle in other people's countries. Why can't he let them rule in peace.
America also has 26,000 missiles capable of hitting Nth Korea and nearly everywhere in the world. They also were developing the Star Wars programme to put nuclear weapons into space. America's MD system also can be used as an offensive tool against nearby countries. It's soldiers stationed at every where in the world and it's ships cruising every where.
You have to understand that Kim Jong Il doesn't have imperial plans, won't attack other nations. He's perfectly comfortable in his corrupt little world. He's a power hungry bastard but he knows if he invades Japan and Sth Korea he loves China's support, which will force refugees out every where. Nth Korea has good roads and a good medical base. In fact I can even say that Nth Korean kids are smarter than most in the Western World. Communism puts a lot of emphasis on learning. Nth Korea is a great place to live. A lot is just propaganda and media exaggeration. Sure, corruption is rife, but what new country isn't? the country isn't even 100 years old for Lenin's sake.
Nth Korea has bombs, nukes, chemical agents. Sure. But so does EVERY OTHER BLIMIN' country. It is not an excuse to invade their country. If America wants to risk a nuclear war by attacking it they can't just move in and say it's in the name of "peace".
Maybe everyelse needs to look at their own country before talking of some other's.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 7, 2006 20:53:43 GMT -5
I'm not entirely sure leaving them to their own devices is wise, though. I mean, as I said, we need to consider the past (like the Nazis)
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Post by lucia on Jul 7, 2006 20:57:00 GMT -5
See, it almost makes sense to invade them, whereas Iraq didn't. There's a pseudo-reason (nukes), an oppressive leader who's commited humanitarian crimes, and we already have bases. Throw in that no country will help them, and you got an easy win. Only problem is that there's no oil, and acts of generosity and kindness aren't big these days.
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Post by ShadowLynx on Jul 7, 2006 21:03:11 GMT -5
Also there's no point in invading. You'll have to pour billions into re-building their infrastructure. Spend millions building shelters and refugee camps. It's not like Iraq. There was a system existing. Nth Korea doesn't have a system at all. China will definitely won't help. They'll probably growl and send aid... But I don't see America invading Nth Korea in the immediate future... /has the longest opinion. /is Communist.
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Post by lucia on Jul 7, 2006 21:13:34 GMT -5
The point? The point would be helping people there live better lives... isn't that a worthy goal?
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Post by eek on Jul 7, 2006 21:16:47 GMT -5
The point? The point would be helping people there live better lives... isn't that a worthy goal? But who are we to decide what's better for others? I reckon if they feel strongly enough about bettering their lives, they'll do it themselves. If they ask for help, then sure, but if they don't, then it's not our business to interfere with foreign affairs unless it would affect us directly. (I use "us" because Britain seems to follow wherever the US goes these days)
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Jul 7, 2006 21:16:53 GMT -5
Bush is mentally handicapped? News to me. Let me help you read my post: Not his literal mental health, although it could probably be agrued his a bit on the slow side (which is what retarded truly means, despite current connentation). At least for the leader of the world's only superpower. In any case, I was speaking more of his stupid actions than his actually ability to think. [see above however on that topic...] Alrighty then.
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Post by lucia on Jul 7, 2006 21:20:48 GMT -5
The point? The point would be helping people there live better lives... isn't that a worthy goal? But who are we to decide what's better for others? I reckon if they feel strongly enough about bettering their lives, they'll do it themselves. If they ask for help, then sure, but if they don't, then it's not our business to interfere with foreign affairs unless it would affect us directly. (I use "us" because Britain seems to follow wherever the US goes these days) People in Burma protested in 1994 asking for democracy, in the thousands. And they were gunned down in the streets. The dicatorship is still there; this is the fourth or so decade its been in power. Did those people not want democracy and freedom enough?
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Post by eek on Jul 7, 2006 21:38:00 GMT -5
But who are we to decide what's better for others? I reckon if they feel strongly enough about bettering their lives, they'll do it themselves. If they ask for help, then sure, but if they don't, then it's not our business to interfere with foreign affairs unless it would affect us directly. (I use "us" because Britain seems to follow wherever the US goes these days) People in Burma protested in 1994 asking for democracy, in the thousands. And they were gunned down in the streets. The dicatorship is still there; this is the fourth or so decade its been in power. Did those people not want democracy and freedom enough? Maybe so, but I think we should look to sorting out our own problems and security before looking towards everyone else's. It doesn't seem right that Bush is always looking to invade places before finishing what he's already started. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan are secure, so why should he go to N. Korea and do the same? Leave them in turmoil, without any sort of security or structure. If you ask me, what they have seems better than anarchy.
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Post by ShadowLynx on Jul 7, 2006 22:06:39 GMT -5
If you guys seem so keen to help others...
Fix the problems Bush caused in Iraq. Finish Burma (Nothing happened there when people demanded peace.) Finish the Congo War in which 1000+ people each day.
Yeah... I was wondering that. Why is it that the US is so concerned about Nth Korea when it was a stable government. Every has a job. There is infrastructure. There is a medical system. People don't die if they keep their mouth shut. There is also a fantastic education system.
Then you get countries like Dem. Congo, Zimbabwe etc. Why don't the American's help those countries? People run every where. There is no home unlike Nth Korea where everyone is granted one. There is no safety, Government troops gun you down because of your 100 people clan. Nth Korea has one of the most efficient police forces. People there die of starvation. Sure Nth Korea has not a lot of food. But you can feel better that every has the same amount. In Congo also rival factions roam the streets and there is no infrastructure. No national pride. In Nth korea. People believe in something. They know if they dont' speak anything bad, good comes to them...
I think that Communism has no wrongs. Just a bunch of severe idiots exaggerating it.
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Post by lucia on Jul 7, 2006 23:12:24 GMT -5
Wait, North Korea is a stable government? Dude, most of the country doesn't have electric power, the health system is abominable, there's rampant corruption, and most money is wasted on missile programs. And saying "well, since everyone's starving, that makes it equal, and equality is good" is a bullshit argument. And we did intervene in Somalia in 1991, if you forgot. Bush is the only national leader in the world to openly claim the Darfur conflict as genocide and Bolton is pushing for UN intervention. I don't like Bush, but you gotta admit he covers his bases.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 7, 2006 23:21:50 GMT -5
I don't know what some people want... North Korean citizens to mail Bush, begging for American intervention?
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Post by lucia on Jul 7, 2006 23:26:24 GMT -5
That is basically what Paul Wolfowitz said the Iraqis would do...
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Jul 7, 2006 23:31:48 GMT -5
That is basically what Paul Wolfowitz said the Iraqis would do... Isn't he the guy on Fox news? Or am I way off?
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