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Post by illicit on Feb 2, 2006 20:05:08 GMT -5
Of Iraq, should we? I think not because if we did, we would only acomplish a few things. 1) Turn a country into a belligerent to the US. Face it, if we leave we will open Iraq up to a swarm of arabs from Iran, Syria, and Al Queada, it will definatly turn Iraq into an anti-US establishment and thats not good for them or us. 2) It would create total anarchy in Iraq for a while. It is pretty bad how it is, and if we pulled out Iraq would be in total anarchy, there wouldnt be ANYTHING to stop insurgents from bombing people, from Iraqis to grab guns and shoot eachother, it would be like Yugoslavia! 3) It would give all the people who died there a meaningless death. Seriously, would you want to fight in a war, die, then have it mean nothing to anyone? I wouldnt(although I wouldnt want to be in a war in the first place), I would rather have the people die for something rather than nothing.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 21:36:27 GMT -5
If the americas pulled out at the gulf war only to leave the country open to dictatorship, what would be the point of the war if we just let the country be dictated again.
We need to train iraqi forces, kill extremists, leave.
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Post by morty14 on Feb 2, 2006 21:52:32 GMT -5
I say we leave now. Tell me what we accomplish by being there. Everytime we kill an insurgent their will be ten more to take his place. Everytime an insurgent kills an Iraqi we do not gain an ally, we gain another enemy because their family will blame us for not protecting them. Meanwhile American soldiers are dying. A good, fair democracy is not possible in Iraq. We can blame our good friend the UK for that one. They were the idiots, who in the name of colonization grouped together a bunch of people who have very old, established and lasting tensions. Iraq will never be safe for all its citizens, the fighting there will never end, and neither will the deaths of innocent civilians. It just won't, that's a fact. We can stay there for as long as we want, but all we will do is slow the problem a little. Meanwhile thousands more Americans die in vain. Personally I'd rather admit we made a mistake and keep the American death total where it is, by pulling out of Iraq then foolishly thinking we can change thousands of years of bitterness and hatred, increasing the American death toll into to tens of thousands, by staying there.
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Post by Hunessai on Feb 2, 2006 21:59:51 GMT -5
I would rather die for nothing than die enforcing the will of corrupt and greedy world leaders.
Let Iraq sort itself out. The Iraqi people should determine their future- not us.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 22:08:05 GMT -5
I would rather die for nothing than die enforcing the will of corrupt and greedy world leaders. Let Iraq sort itself out. The Iraqi people should determine their future- not us. I would rather fight for what I believe in rather than sit back and fund them. EDIT: How can the iraqi people determine their own future if they keep getting dictated. If we stay in untill they defend themselves then they can decide whats best for themselves...
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Post by morty14 on Feb 2, 2006 22:10:31 GMT -5
I would rather fight for what I believe in rather than sit back and fund them. Why fund them? Just leave them be, the rest of the Arab world would be very grateful if we just got our asses out of the whole region. I say we comply, it is their territory, not ours. EDIT: They can determine their own future by stopping such things from happening. People allow dictators to get power, one man can't make a nation do whatever he wants.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 22:14:09 GMT -5
I would rather fight for what I believe in rather than sit back and fund them. Why fund them? Just leave them be, the rest of the Arab world would be very grateful if we just got our asses out of the whole region. I say we comply, it is their territory, not ours. No, I would rather fight for what I beleive in than sit back and pay our governments taxes so they can use our money to enforce their corrupt and greedy will. Atleast if we fight, we may stop the iraqi people from being prosecuted all their lives and they might actualy get a chance to live properly.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 22:15:41 GMT -5
I would rather fight for what I believe in rather than sit back and fund them. Why fund them? Just leave them be, the rest of the Arab world would be very grateful if we just got our asses out of the whole region. I say we comply, it is their territory, not ours. EDIT: They can determine their own future by stopping such things from happening. People allow dictators to get power, one man can't make a nation do whatever he wants. One man who controls and army can
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Post by morty14 on Feb 2, 2006 22:33:28 GMT -5
One man who controls and army can Is this a robot army? I think not. People are in that army, and those people can easily say, "Enough is enough, you are a cruel and ruthless dictator, we won't follow you anymore." Or the people of Iraq could rise up and fight for freedom. An army normally consists of at most 50,000 super loyal soldiers who would kill their own family to obey the dictator. In Iraq I'd guess more like 10,000 tops. How many people are in Iraq? I'll bet enough to overtake 10,000 soldiers, no matter how heavily armed they are.
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Post by eek on Feb 2, 2006 22:37:59 GMT -5
One man who controls and army can Is this a robot army? I think not. People are in that army, and those people can easily say, "Enough is enough, you are a cruel and ruthless dictator, we won't follow you anymore." Or the people of Iraq could rise up and fight for freedom. An army normally consists of at most 50,000 super loyal soldiers who would kill their own family to obey the dictator. In Iraq I'd guess more like 10,000 tops. How many people are in Iraq? I'll bet enough to overtake 10,000 soldiers, no matter how heavily armed they are. Fear is an army's most powerful weapon. Sure, there's enough people to take them on, but those people are so afraid that they won't band together and do it. That's the whole problem. They're so afraid of the opressive regime they won't fight it.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 22:40:52 GMT -5
One man who controls and army can Is this a robot army? I think not. People are in that army, and those people can easily say, "Enough is enough, you are a cruel and ruthless dictator, we won't follow you anymore." Or the people of Iraq could rise up and fight for freedom. An army normally consists of at most 50,000 super loyal soldiers who would kill their own family to obey the dictator. In Iraq I'd guess more like 10,000 tops. How many people are in Iraq? I'll bet enough to overtake 10,000 soldiers, no matter how heavily armed they are. yeah, sadam hussain took over iraq with a robot army He imprisioned, tortured, slaughtered innocent people. He killed his family to stop himself from being assassinated... does this look like standing up to the playground bully If it means getting your hole family imprisioned and tortured? 1 soldier carrys 1 AK with 30 bullets in each magazine. That means if 30 people try and stand up to 1 soldier, he could shoot them all.
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Post by mastab on Feb 2, 2006 23:47:45 GMT -5
I think the expression, if you're in a ditch stop digging applies to this. However, since the idiot poloticians kept us in so long that hole has grown far too deep to climb out of. We will have to keep digging untill we reach China on the other side of the world. Estimated time of arrival in China: 2056. Hmmmm..... Maybe they should have listened to us in the first place?
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 2, 2006 23:57:32 GMT -5
I think the expression, if you're in a ditch stop digging applies to this. However, since the idiot poloticians kept us in so long that hole has grown far too deep to climb out of. We will have to keep digging untill we reach China on the other side of the world. Estimated time of arrival in China: 2056. Hmmmm..... Maybe they should have listened to us in the first place? Everyone knows withdrawel isnt a good form of contraception, theres still a chance there will be something left in the hole and it will grow into a bigger problem. You want the poletitions to walk into iraq and instantly have all the terrorists gone and the dictators delt with... sorry it doesnt happen that way, we need to climb out of the hole rather then just sit around saying "oh it doesnt matter, what can they do to us anyway" because one day it will bite us in the and you will be angry at the poletitions for not dealing with terrorists and dictators.
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Post by mastab on Feb 3, 2006 0:05:40 GMT -5
If we pull out now, Iraq will decsend into anarachy(not that it isn't in it now) and the world will only get more pissed off at us. If we stay in, newer generations will be more americanized and not feel such hatred for us(although that hatred is rightfuly placed). The threat is decreasing, not increasing, there are no more bad things in that hole. If we could pull out and give our ast minute pulled together democracy in there a huge grant in money, weapons, and other supplies it would work, but since our country is not doing so well financially right now that is not an option.
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Feb 3, 2006 1:19:42 GMT -5
We're screwed if we stay, we're both even more screwed if we go. The lesser of two evils I guess.
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Post by ExtraCheeZ on Feb 3, 2006 2:32:30 GMT -5
Also, you guys get a bad image of how much they hate us from the media, there was some documentary talking to some yank soldiers and they were saying that there is about an equal amount of iraqi people who want the americans to stay and ones that want to kill them. They say most of the good people have their families threatend when they join the iraq security forces ect, so they dont show up on graduation or to support the troops ect.
Polititions spread lies and deciete to make money, but they are nothing compaired to the media.
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Post by mastab on Feb 3, 2006 22:07:53 GMT -5
I think the Iraqis hate us not only because of the media, but because of common logic. A foreign army that your government and religion had trained you to hate invades. They kill your friends in family while attacking. They bring down your loved leader(they had been brainwashed to love him). They set up their own government in place of yours. How do you fee?
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Post by Hunessai on Feb 3, 2006 22:28:06 GMT -5
There wouldn't be a problem in the first place if we didn't piss people off with our meddling ways. A country is supposed to be sovereign and subject to no other's will.
This isn't a matter of good and evil- this is a country going into another and overthrowing the government. The victimized country did no harm to the invading country.
Well, actually, it did. Iraq was going to start selling oil in Euros, which would make the US dollar collapse. A pre-emptive strike fueled by greed.
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Post by mastab on Feb 4, 2006 3:41:15 GMT -5
I was against invading in the first place.
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Feb 4, 2006 3:49:44 GMT -5
Yeah, we shouldn't have gone in there, but if we don't finish the job then we'll have problems.
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Post by morty14 on Feb 4, 2006 12:40:28 GMT -5
Here's a step by step process of how we can really help our situation in the middle east.
Step 1: During this entire year begin taking soldiers out of Iraq, by January 1st of 2007 we should not have more than 100 Americans in Iraq. Step 2: Become much, much less dependent on oil. Should be accomplished in 5 years maximum. Step 3: Move all American soldiers out of the entire middle east, whether a nation wants us there or not. Should take no more than 3 months to accomplish. Step 4: Cut off all foreign aid going to the middle east region, including the billions we send to Israel. Takes 10 minutes, just go to the media and publicly announce that we are no longer funding any nation in the mid east.
That 4 step plan that shouldn't take more than 6 years to do would solve a lot of problems we have with the middle east. It does all the things the terrorists want us to do. Here's a handy checklist of what the terrorists seem to hate about us: 1) We are infidels that come with weapons to their holy lands (Check that one off, see step 3) 2) We are funding the people they hate more than anyone else (Check that one off too, see step 4) 3) We are "Westernizing" their homelands (Check that one off, if we aren't there and we aren't sending anything to them, then their is no way we can be accused of doing that)
So now the terrorists have no reason to hate us, we've complied with their wishes, saved American lives, and saved a ton of money on military spending and foreign aid spending. It sounds like a good plan to me.
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Post by illicit on Feb 4, 2006 14:03:57 GMT -5
I think the expression, if you're in a ditch stop digging applies to this. However, since the idiot poloticians kept us in so long that hole has grown far too deep to climb out of. We will have to keep digging untill we reach China on the other side of the world. Estimated time of arrival in China: 2056. Hmmmm..... Maybe they should have listened to us in the first place? We did, if im not mistaken most of American wanted to go to war, and the majority of liberals wanted to go to war too, however since liberals are anti american they try and point every little thing that doesnt work out perfect in Americas face. There is an end to the war if we follow Micheal Savage's advice and carpet bomb the triangle. But then the terrorists would get mad at us because we arnt helping their people at all. The terrorists are JELOUS, they want us destroyed because we live so well.
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Post by mastab on Feb 4, 2006 14:39:02 GMT -5
The only Americans that wanted to go to war were those who wanted revenge for 9/11. And that's Afghanistan. Even less people wanted to attack Iraq. Liberalism supports diplomacy over war, most liberal were aainst the war. Liberals are not anti-american. Many of the founding fathers were liberal. Are you saying that if we see anything wrong with the U.S. we are anti american? Do you expect us to blindly follow our imperialist government like you do? Your carpet bombing idea is hillarious. Are you saying we kill their people to avoid them killing ours? Do you think they will be less mad at us because we blew up their friends? Blind killing is never the answer.
The terrorist don't want our help, that's why they're trying to force us out of their country. They are not jealous of us, they like their lives. That's why they live them the way they do. Not everyone in the world loves capitalism, obesity, and McDonald's as much as America does.
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Post by morty14 on Feb 4, 2006 14:41:17 GMT -5
They have explicitly said that we "infidels" need to leave their holy lands and never come back. They don't want our culture, they don't want our poeple, they don't want anything to do with us. SO they can't possibly come back and say, "Well now we want you to help us." It just wouldn't work. They would lose thousands of supporters if they did something like that in response to us doing exactly as they asked.
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Post by Ratwar on Feb 4, 2006 18:33:14 GMT -5
We did, if im not mistaken most of American wanted to go to war, and the majority of liberals wanted to go to war too, however since liberals are anti american they try and point every little thing that doesnt work out perfect in Americas face. There is an end to the war if we follow Micheal Savage's advice and carpet bomb the triangle. If I'm not mistaken, Bush said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and didn't say that almost two years later we would still be dieing in Iraq. I mean, how long ago did he say we had ended major combat operations? Why do you continue to support the conservatives and their corrupt government and call liberal's Anti-American? You support the Republicans who have sold out thier ideals to win elections. A group which cares only about it's own power and nothing for what is right, for the truth, or for the lives of normal people. You support an idea about just carpet bombing the whole area? Do you have no compassion? No sense of human life? Please, see a counsilor, for the good of yourself and the rest of the world. But then the terrorists would get mad at us because we arnt helping their people at all. The terrorists are JELOUS, they want us destroyed because we live so well. Wow... Just wow... That statement right there is so wrong... I just don't know where to begin...
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