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Post by eek on Aug 8, 2006 19:34:02 GMT -5
Against non-aggressive civilians? Never. But, as soon as they provoke or initiate violence, I stop seeing them as civilians. If they pose harm to anyone else, then they're fair game.
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Gold_skywalker
Squire
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 8, 2006 22:32:11 GMT -5
Let me give everyone here a scenario...
It's Winter, 2007, local Black Supremasist group's come to town. They hold a rally downtown, and naturally, it is protested.
Suddenly, twelved armed men of varying ethnicities, barge through the crowd with knives and bats. The group begins to harrass those holding the rally.
Should the police intervene? Or not?
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 9, 2006 0:03:43 GMT -5
Let me give everyone here a scenario... It's Winter, 2007, local Black Supremasist group's come to town. They hold a rally downtown, and naturally, it is protested. Suddenly, twelved armed men of varying ethnicities, barge through the crowd with knives and bats. The group begins to harrass those holding the rally. Should the police intervene? Or not? The police should absolutely step in to quell the violence. Absolutely. |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 9, 2006 0:11:02 GMT -5
But every effort should be made at all times to prevent that from happening. I agree, unless if stopping collateral damage would effect the mission, and the mission is a vital one. |
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Post by lucia on Aug 9, 2006 1:06:19 GMT -5
Let me give everyone here a scenario... It's Winter, 2007, local Black Supremasist group's come to town. They hold a rally downtown, and naturally, it is protested. Suddenly, twelved armed men of varying ethnicities, barge through the crowd with knives and bats. The group begins to harrass those holding the rally. Should the police intervene? Or not? Of course. That's the said duty of a police force. Well, in a democratic state. Most of the time. |
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 9, 2006 1:14:14 GMT -5
It's always the duty, 100% of the time, of a police force to serve and protect civillians. Always. Just because it's not enforced doesn't mean it isn't the duty.
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 9, 2006 3:44:59 GMT -5
The duty of a police force is what they are formed for, not always to protect and serve.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Aug 9, 2006 4:00:41 GMT -5
The duty of a police force is what they are formed for, not always to protect and serve. Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? |
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 9, 2006 4:53:55 GMT -5
They wouldn't be police if they didn't protect and serve.
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Post by eek on Aug 9, 2006 6:29:59 GMT -5
Let me give everyone here a scenario... It's Winter, 2007, local Black Supremasist group's come to town. They hold a rally downtown, and naturally, it is protested. Suddenly, twelved armed men of varying ethnicities, barge through the crowd with knives and bats. The group begins to harrass those holding the rally. Should the police intervene? Or not? Why shouldn't they?  |
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Gold_skywalker
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Official Forum Socialist
Darth Caedus
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 9, 2006 10:07:13 GMT -5
The duty of a police force is what they are formed for, not always to protect and serve. Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? The Geheime Staats Polizei(Gestapo), seemed more intent with killing and subjugating Political opponents than protecting civvies. Alrighty then, I'd have to go with the answers you guys put. They should always intervene if it gets violent. |
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Post by lucia on Aug 9, 2006 14:26:51 GMT -5
The duty of a police force is what they are formed for, not always to protect and serve. Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? How about in a Police State?   |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 9, 2006 16:16:20 GMT -5
Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? To keep a government in power, to stop a revolt, by keeping information from the public, to arrest anyone that knows too much and is planning on saying something. |
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Post by lucia on Aug 9, 2006 17:46:18 GMT -5
Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? To keep a government in power, to stop a revolt, by keeping information from the public, to arrest anyone that knows too much and is planning on saying something. Generallly, though, wouldn't that be the job of a semi-legal paramilitary wing of a political party? Like Hezbollah, Fatah's militants, or the Iranian Revolutionary Guard? |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 9, 2006 18:16:33 GMT -5
Generallly, though, wouldn't that be the job of a semi-legal paramilitary wing of a political party? Like Hezbollah, Fatah's militants, or the Iranian Revolutionary Guard? Those are only names, they are still policing information. |
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Post by Leviticus on Aug 9, 2006 20:36:45 GMT -5
Violence directly targeted at civilians is never acceptable. Unfortunately when they harbour combatants during a time of war, whether it be willingly or at gunpoint, and are killed in the process, sadly they are no longer innocent civilians... but casualties of war.
-Levi
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 9, 2006 23:07:31 GMT -5
If their helping the enemy, they are the enemy.
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Post by morty14 on Aug 10, 2006 14:59:45 GMT -5
If their helping the enemy, they are the enemy. So if we are at war with a nation and their populace aids the government in any way (works in factories, on farms, provides things to the war effort, etc), we should kill them just like if they were soldiers? |
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 10, 2006 17:34:29 GMT -5
No. That's a Dresden-esque approach. But if we accidentally kill someone in a fire-fight between soldiers, then I don't think the country who accidentally killed said civvie should be crucified.
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Post by morty14 on Aug 10, 2006 19:43:38 GMT -5
No. That's a Dresden-esque approach. But if we accidentally kill someone in a fire-fight between soldiers, then I don't think the country who accidentally killed said civvie should be crucified. Oh, certainly not. War is war. But devil made it sound like we should make enemies of anyone who helps the enemy, thereby making civilian deaths targets rather than mistakes. |
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Post by Osama Bin Laden on Aug 10, 2006 22:33:43 GMT -5
No. That's a Dresden-esque approach. But if we accidentally kill someone in a fire-fight between soldiers, then I don't think the country who accidentally killed said civvie should be crucified. Oh, certainly not. War is war. But devil made it sound like we should make enemies of anyone who helps the enemy, thereby making civilian deaths targets rather than mistakes. You seem to think that I have what I call totalarianism. I dont think like that, the circumstances matter. If the civilian has enemies hiding in his house, and they are willingly helping them, than they become part of the enemy. If a poor farmer is suppying food to troops becuase he has no other option, they arent automatically enemies. |
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Post by milanius on Sept 10, 2006 15:44:05 GMT -5
Not always to protect and serve? Can you give one other instance they might have been formed for? How about in a Police State? Bingo ! Police, the regular one, Grunts in Blue, should uphold the law and protect people in the state, regardless of religion or race or political affiliation - that's the whole general idea, anyway. But give certain people in shadows too much power, allow them to gather too much force by their side and then make them paranoid... result ? "Welcome to Serbia, Hellpit of Europe. We have more political assassinations per year than most European countries, and spa's... and mountains, too !" edit: Ironically, as I am writing these lines, one political murder really accrued in the part of my country called Sandzak - this, however, doesn't have anything to do with police, secret or otherwise, but that doesn't mean I'll stop being paranoid anytime soon. edit 2: OMG YOU HAVE SPELL CHECK !! *hugs and kisses for staff of the PROTESF* |
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Post by eek on Sept 11, 2006 14:26:52 GMT -5
edit 2: OMG YOU HAVE SPELL CHECK !! *hugs and kisses for staff of the PROTESF* We do?  Well, how about that... [/offtopic] |
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