Post by Mistress.Nairakarn on Mar 14, 2006 15:58:46 GMT -5
Sorry if the title didn't make much sense, transgenderism and homosexuality, are two long words so I had to sort of alter it a bit, to make it fit.
Okay I know I've grown closer to some people, ever since I stopped feverently, debating in the debate section and I don't want to risk, causing much conflict after starting that sort of 'bond', so I'd prefer this stay a Discussion and not a debate. Also I am not interested in debating myself I just want to see other peoples opinions. First I'll post the main points, for those who would rather just get the main points, near the top, then get into other somewhat unrelated details and rants at the bottom.
Okay why are homosexuality and transgenderism, of any sort so closely associated, as I would have named this thread, had the Title fitted?
And whats up with the steriotype, of masculine lesbians and feminine gay men? Does it have a partial ring of truth to it? Or is it just that it is more accepted?
And why do some percieve homosexuality in a male as feminine, or as masculine in a female? Why does it seem so many gay guys are more feminine, than straight guys and same for lesbians and straight women?
And also another thing I notice: Many more gays seem to admit, to being even partially bisexual than straights. Am I getting to something here or just reading too deep?
And I mean no offense to guys like Thief, but why are so many open gay guys almost typically flamboyant? I know many are quite macho, but most seem, to have a strong feminine side which particularly over rides, they're masculine side. And I know of many gay guys who don't LOOK feminine, but they sure act it.
Perhaps it's the same in the case of many lesbians?
Well those were my main points hope I started something of actual interest, here. Also something I'd be interested in anyone, who cares to answer sharing they're opinion: What necessarily makes a person gay? Predominantly being attracted to the same sex? Or having you're dream person the same sex?
Alright now to all the 'really long post' stuff, and my more indirect questions tied into transgenderism and homosexuality. Don't bother below this paragraph, unless you want to see a massive rant, but while were on the subject of homosexuality and transgenderism itself , I would appreciate seeing peoples opinions.
Is it just me or does the media seem to perpetuate negative, steriotypes? I've been questioning my own sexuality a LOT lately, all I know for sure is that I am not pure heterosexual and that I am not purely homosexual, so I have felt a bit touchy lately.
Though I identify as androgynous, I do admit I have a strong feminine side, but at the same time not to sound arrogant, and not that they shouldn't be tolerated but I feel disgraced, by the steriotypical feminine gay man.
Yes I have some strong feminine sides even if I don't necessarily, consider myself feminine as a whole, but I don't talk in a high lispy voice, I don't have limp wrists I don't wiggle my hips, I don't wear tight bright or womens clothing, neither do I attempt to make my physical appearance purely feminine.
Not that I mind guys like that, but in my opinion they do seem to give any guy, deviating from what society sees as 'masculine' a bad name in my opinion, just because I have a strong feminine side, doesn't mean I have a high pitched nasal voice, or wear womens clothing. It also doesn't mean I don't have some things, which are masculine about me. And no I don't identify as a 'tran' quite either.
I have nothing against these guys, but I hate being lumped in the same group, by society.
(No offense meant Thief if you're reading this, I don't mind others who do such, I just don't like being steriotyped and lumped, in the same group).
Also a lot of these guys I notice that TV seems to love, putting in the spotlight, have none of what I call "Androgynous beauty" about them, sure they may not be that manly, but they still look fairly similar to typical guys.
It's just wondering if I could technically be homosexual myself lately, has put quite a bit of stress on me, and a bit of conflict between myself and the Mainstream gay community, even if were allys I still hate being lumped in the same group.
If you bothered reading all this: If a guy is not attracted to masculine men AT ALL, and is attracted to 90% of females, and has no attraction whatsoever for 90% of males, yet they're dream person is a androgynous or feminine male, what are they?
While I am predominantly attracted to females, I prefer people technically male, and it's possible the group I may be attracted to, is somewhere from androgynous to feminine. After a lot of curiosity it appears my primary attraction, is towards BOTH androgynous and feminine males in roughly equal proportion.
But I'd say only about 10% or less, of the male population is even remotely androgynous, at the same time, so that kind of contradicts things.
I've never heard of a gay guy, who can never be attracted to masculinity, I may find EXTREMELy subtle bits of masculinity even a bit attractive, but ONLY if there is a strong predominance, of feminimity over powering it.
And lastly on the area of sexual identity, I still don't know what I am, and I am curious what others would think of me.
I've never seen a guy with such a strong feminine side, who actually likes having a tiny bit of facial hair, and has no desire to cross dress or have girly mannerisms. Also I don't know of any other guys with such a strong feminine side, who can be so... Animalistic. How many of these guys do you see, talking in deep growly voices and strutting around like a normal guy?
And yet ironically at the same time, I've sometimes though to myself "I don't like womens clothes... On either gender", I wouldn't even want to see a girl dressed that 'feminine', a lot of things seen as 'feminine' I simply see as weak. On a honest note I could see myself as a extremely animalistic neandrathal like, version of a tran... Only I don't like being seen as purely feminine.
On the same note I've never seen a guy, who can be so absent of feminimity in some ways, and yet seems to like more than a bit of feminimity in physical appearance, and fantasizes about playing, VERY feminine roles in relationships.
Also I don't like people assuming I am female, being mistaken for a female all the time, is not gratifying for me, what gratifys me, is when people have trouble telling either way. It's like I am exactly half a typical guy, half a full blown transgendered person.
Picture a typical tranny, minus the urge to actually be a female, I KNOW I don't want to be anywhere near pure masculine, but I also know that I sure as heck DO NOT want to be 'all women', I'd rather be something purely neutral. And I don't want to be appreciated for masculinity or feminimity, but rather for both of them combined within me in equal amounts.
For example if someone I am attracted to, admires some of my less masculine traits, thats more than cool with me, but I take it as extremely offensive, if someone automatically jumps to the conclusion, that it must mean I am "All feminine", even if they admire it, I am most certainly not, and I don't regret being boilogically male, or have any desire to be a real female either.
How can I be so primal beast like and animalistic, and yet be so feminine in some ways, at the same time? Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? And I feel like the only male alive, with a strong feminine side, who actually enjoys posessing subtle amounts of masculinity, such as a deep voice or barely visible goatee. Or maybe it's just one of the major factors, in my feeling androgynous?
I am too masculine to be a "Transgirl", but to feminine to be like anything else born male, it is very confusing to me, I haven't heard of any cases that similar to my own, and would be interested in seeing if anybody knows, of those with cases similar to you're own.
The main questions I want to directly ask after posting this: Do you consider me heterosexual bisexual or homosexual? And if a bisexual which way would you say I tend to lean? As for my gender identity itself, out of everything you have heard of, have you heard of anything even remotely similar to what I am describing?
Or is my case almost completely unique in you're opinion?
And lastly: Feel free to talk about anything related to homosexuality, or transgenderism yourself here.
(I Hope this wasn't too long which it probably was, but I want to see other peoples opinions on this, I've been dying to ask these questions for ages now).
Okay I know I've grown closer to some people, ever since I stopped feverently, debating in the debate section and I don't want to risk, causing much conflict after starting that sort of 'bond', so I'd prefer this stay a Discussion and not a debate. Also I am not interested in debating myself I just want to see other peoples opinions. First I'll post the main points, for those who would rather just get the main points, near the top, then get into other somewhat unrelated details and rants at the bottom.
Okay why are homosexuality and transgenderism, of any sort so closely associated, as I would have named this thread, had the Title fitted?
And whats up with the steriotype, of masculine lesbians and feminine gay men? Does it have a partial ring of truth to it? Or is it just that it is more accepted?
And why do some percieve homosexuality in a male as feminine, or as masculine in a female? Why does it seem so many gay guys are more feminine, than straight guys and same for lesbians and straight women?
And also another thing I notice: Many more gays seem to admit, to being even partially bisexual than straights. Am I getting to something here or just reading too deep?
And I mean no offense to guys like Thief, but why are so many open gay guys almost typically flamboyant? I know many are quite macho, but most seem, to have a strong feminine side which particularly over rides, they're masculine side. And I know of many gay guys who don't LOOK feminine, but they sure act it.
Perhaps it's the same in the case of many lesbians?
Well those were my main points hope I started something of actual interest, here. Also something I'd be interested in anyone, who cares to answer sharing they're opinion: What necessarily makes a person gay? Predominantly being attracted to the same sex? Or having you're dream person the same sex?
Alright now to all the 'really long post' stuff, and my more indirect questions tied into transgenderism and homosexuality. Don't bother below this paragraph, unless you want to see a massive rant, but while were on the subject of homosexuality and transgenderism itself , I would appreciate seeing peoples opinions.
Is it just me or does the media seem to perpetuate negative, steriotypes? I've been questioning my own sexuality a LOT lately, all I know for sure is that I am not pure heterosexual and that I am not purely homosexual, so I have felt a bit touchy lately.
Though I identify as androgynous, I do admit I have a strong feminine side, but at the same time not to sound arrogant, and not that they shouldn't be tolerated but I feel disgraced, by the steriotypical feminine gay man.
Yes I have some strong feminine sides even if I don't necessarily, consider myself feminine as a whole, but I don't talk in a high lispy voice, I don't have limp wrists I don't wiggle my hips, I don't wear tight bright or womens clothing, neither do I attempt to make my physical appearance purely feminine.
Not that I mind guys like that, but in my opinion they do seem to give any guy, deviating from what society sees as 'masculine' a bad name in my opinion, just because I have a strong feminine side, doesn't mean I have a high pitched nasal voice, or wear womens clothing. It also doesn't mean I don't have some things, which are masculine about me. And no I don't identify as a 'tran' quite either.
I have nothing against these guys, but I hate being lumped in the same group, by society.
(No offense meant Thief if you're reading this, I don't mind others who do such, I just don't like being steriotyped and lumped, in the same group).
Also a lot of these guys I notice that TV seems to love, putting in the spotlight, have none of what I call "Androgynous beauty" about them, sure they may not be that manly, but they still look fairly similar to typical guys.
It's just wondering if I could technically be homosexual myself lately, has put quite a bit of stress on me, and a bit of conflict between myself and the Mainstream gay community, even if were allys I still hate being lumped in the same group.
If you bothered reading all this: If a guy is not attracted to masculine men AT ALL, and is attracted to 90% of females, and has no attraction whatsoever for 90% of males, yet they're dream person is a androgynous or feminine male, what are they?
While I am predominantly attracted to females, I prefer people technically male, and it's possible the group I may be attracted to, is somewhere from androgynous to feminine. After a lot of curiosity it appears my primary attraction, is towards BOTH androgynous and feminine males in roughly equal proportion.
But I'd say only about 10% or less, of the male population is even remotely androgynous, at the same time, so that kind of contradicts things.
I've never heard of a gay guy, who can never be attracted to masculinity, I may find EXTREMELy subtle bits of masculinity even a bit attractive, but ONLY if there is a strong predominance, of feminimity over powering it.
And lastly on the area of sexual identity, I still don't know what I am, and I am curious what others would think of me.
I've never seen a guy with such a strong feminine side, who actually likes having a tiny bit of facial hair, and has no desire to cross dress or have girly mannerisms. Also I don't know of any other guys with such a strong feminine side, who can be so... Animalistic. How many of these guys do you see, talking in deep growly voices and strutting around like a normal guy?
And yet ironically at the same time, I've sometimes though to myself "I don't like womens clothes... On either gender", I wouldn't even want to see a girl dressed that 'feminine', a lot of things seen as 'feminine' I simply see as weak. On a honest note I could see myself as a extremely animalistic neandrathal like, version of a tran... Only I don't like being seen as purely feminine.
On the same note I've never seen a guy, who can be so absent of feminimity in some ways, and yet seems to like more than a bit of feminimity in physical appearance, and fantasizes about playing, VERY feminine roles in relationships.
Also I don't like people assuming I am female, being mistaken for a female all the time, is not gratifying for me, what gratifys me, is when people have trouble telling either way. It's like I am exactly half a typical guy, half a full blown transgendered person.
Picture a typical tranny, minus the urge to actually be a female, I KNOW I don't want to be anywhere near pure masculine, but I also know that I sure as heck DO NOT want to be 'all women', I'd rather be something purely neutral. And I don't want to be appreciated for masculinity or feminimity, but rather for both of them combined within me in equal amounts.
For example if someone I am attracted to, admires some of my less masculine traits, thats more than cool with me, but I take it as extremely offensive, if someone automatically jumps to the conclusion, that it must mean I am "All feminine", even if they admire it, I am most certainly not, and I don't regret being boilogically male, or have any desire to be a real female either.
How can I be so primal beast like and animalistic, and yet be so feminine in some ways, at the same time? Isn't that a bit of a contradiction? And I feel like the only male alive, with a strong feminine side, who actually enjoys posessing subtle amounts of masculinity, such as a deep voice or barely visible goatee. Or maybe it's just one of the major factors, in my feeling androgynous?
I am too masculine to be a "Transgirl", but to feminine to be like anything else born male, it is very confusing to me, I haven't heard of any cases that similar to my own, and would be interested in seeing if anybody knows, of those with cases similar to you're own.
The main questions I want to directly ask after posting this: Do you consider me heterosexual bisexual or homosexual? And if a bisexual which way would you say I tend to lean? As for my gender identity itself, out of everything you have heard of, have you heard of anything even remotely similar to what I am describing?
Or is my case almost completely unique in you're opinion?
And lastly: Feel free to talk about anything related to homosexuality, or transgenderism yourself here.
(I Hope this wasn't too long which it probably was, but I want to see other peoples opinions on this, I've been dying to ask these questions for ages now).