Ratwar
Squire
Horkers Rule!
Posts: 1,981
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Post by Ratwar on Sept 5, 2006 21:38:58 GMT -5
They should be punished as any other that breaks a law is. But more specificly, I think that they should be forced to do community service untill they would be finished with their school obligations and perhaps forefit access to welfare. But they should be dealt with in the manor which the law perscribes, what ever that may be. I think he meant those that are mentally unable to complete school.
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Post by thaddius on Sept 5, 2006 22:01:36 GMT -5
They should be punished as any other that breaks a law is. But more specificly, I think that they should be forced to do community service untill they would be finished with their school obligations and perhaps forefit access to welfare. But they should be dealt with in the manor which the law perscribes, what ever that may be. I think he meant those that are mentally unable to complete school. Oops, oh well. Well they should have an alternate education, such as life skills.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 6, 2006 6:24:52 GMT -5
They should be punished as any other that breaks a law is. But more specificly, I think that they should be forced to do community service untill they would be finished with their school obligations and perhaps forefit access to welfare. But they should be dealt with in the manor which the law perscribes, what ever that may be. I guess we need to consider "What is education?" but I think this not going an education in the standard way being a crime is akin in stupidity as it being against the law to try to kill yourself. (Not that I support one killing themself but making it into legislation? FFS....) Link (I had found this link far into the post, but it is one I think everyone should read - its very short, so I decided to put it up early in the post while I still had peoples attentions) I think he meant those that are mentally unable to complete school. Actually, not quite, its more a case that I think this usual standard that is set is a load of crap in the sense of education. Being illegal not to go to school/be homeschooled? Well, ok, if education is free, I don't really see any parents not going along with it at least until their children can read or write, but moving on closer to the issue at hand. I'm not actually from England, but through Wiki I got a page that brought me to a lot of sources. You can find that page here. I'm hoping i'll go through some of the best ones, though if a retaliation is found by any of you on other sites, feel free to show them. Anyway, here is the first one. LinkI'd advise reading the rest of that section, too. Hell, i'll quote more just as a reference to show things I find good. Oh, I now feel the need to clarify something, too. I know an argument will come up about the necessity of education, about how it develops social skills, et cetera. I say, yes, that is a valid point. Not valid enough to legislate in its favour. Anyway, moving swiftly on. [/b] (See also page 52 for other steps the LEA may take.) Technically it makes no difference in this situation whether or not you are providing education out of school.[/quote] Am I the only one who sees how utterly f'ing stupid that is? Seriously. A kid misses school (read: decides to take the day off) enough times, and all of a sudden, the parents go to court? Great system. To show something I can understand on the opposite side of the coin, though... Compulsory education at least entitles people to an education.... Usually... At the point that compulsory education ends here, a lot of schools tend to do a thing where depending on where you are from you might have a harder time getting a school. Though, then again, even when school is "compulsory" schools tend to be a lot harder for legal immigrants to get into, so its a backward system whatever way you cut it. LinkIts a good article, Some Pros and Cons is quite interesting. And Compulsory education: an Oxymoron, too. Really, that is the main thing that is getting to me. I'll post the start of that one now... Necessary Components, just started reading it now, and it has a good point already... All that is good.... And... Link
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Post by thaddius on Sept 10, 2006 0:46:02 GMT -5
I guess we need to consider "What is education?" but I think this not going an education in the standard way being a crime is akin in stupidity as it being against the law to try to kill yourself. (Not that I support one killing themself but making it into legislation? FFS....) If it is not illegal, then how would a country enforce its laws? Why do you not want to linger on the fact that education is the root of society? It seems to me that there is no argument against it; that education is a must and the people must have it. That is a good point, but I never suggested that the parent go to court, infarct I believe that the current system is flawed and the student should be responsible for being present. While there is some truth to that, institutes of higher learning generally let in the most qualified candidates.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 10, 2006 5:00:23 GMT -5
If it is not illegal, then how would a country enforce its laws? Call me crazy, but i'll never be able to agree to victimless crimes and illegality. If it was not illegal, then this particular law wouldn't exist and wouldn't need to be enforced. I think thats the whole point... And those that don't agree? Imprisonment? Imprisonment for the parents of kids who decide to take too many days off school? Sorry, I think thats crazy. Oh, so the student goes to juvy? Now thats a fantastic idea... Thats true. Oh, I want to add something... I know that there is the argument that parents could be using kids for labour at home, and I don't want anyone to think that I agree with anything like that. What i'm trying to say is it should be the child's choice about education... If they decide to not go in, or just aren't ready for it or whatever other reason, they shoudn't be punished for it.
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Post by Leviticus on Sept 10, 2006 7:56:06 GMT -5
What i'm trying to say is it should be the child's choice about education... If they decide to not go in, or just aren't ready for it or whatever other reason, they shoudn't be punished for it. What age group are you thinking about? I don't think most children under the age of 16 or 17 are really capable of making all the right choices.
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Post by thaddius on Sept 10, 2006 12:35:36 GMT -5
If it was not illegal, then this particular law wouldn't exist and wouldn't need to be enforced. I think thats the whole point... If it is not illegal, then how can the government ensure that people meet their obligation? If they do not agree that is unfortunate for them. Say I don't agree with paying taxes, should i still not be healed responsible for paying them?I think I've already addressed that it should be the kids responsibility unless the parents are impeding them from going. Most kids that do not go to school do it by their own choice. Since the point of education is the betterment of one's self and society, I think community service and education would be more appropriate. It's unfortunate that people would have to be punished, but there is not really any other way to get people to follow laws.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 10, 2006 14:57:13 GMT -5
If it is not illegal, then how can the government ensure that people meet their obligation? I really don't think we'll get anywhere on this. I don't think it should be an obligation, and I don't think it should be punishable to not meet this mandate, while you think the opposite. Ah, so we get to the heart of it. We have to have education so there is an increased chance of employment and taxes paid. Loud and clear. In a situation that the parents were forcing a not going to school thing, then they should be punished... And should a child want to go to school, a place should be there for him or her, but forcing it? Sorry, I guess I think that education at a time a person wants to do it is probably a wiser decision. A child, depending on how they are getting on at school should have the freedom to be able to leave that school if they are not fitting in well. Should a better alternative such as home schooling, or an agreement in another school which is better for the child's education, then that is good. As a trial thing, see how the child fares compared to their former sitaution i'd agree. And laws are infallible?
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Post by thaddius on Sept 10, 2006 20:52:31 GMT -5
I really don't think we'll get anywhere on this. I don't think it should be an obligation, and I don't think it should be punishable to not meet this mandate, while you think the opposite. Agree to disagree? Thank the framers for judical review.
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Muad'dib
Squire
Kwizatz Haderach
There exists no separation between gods and men; one blends softly casual into the other.
Posts: 1,638
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 11, 2006 13:35:34 GMT -5
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