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Post by Britney on Aug 29, 2006 16:01:35 GMT -5
How many years of school do you think the government should require us to go through? Should everyone be required to go through the same amount, or should there be exemptions granted to specific groups (such as those who are homeschooled, etc)?
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mastab
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Post by mastab on Aug 29, 2006 22:37:44 GMT -5
None, although it should be strongly recomended and thought of as a social standard.
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Post by ShadowLynx on Aug 30, 2006 2:22:24 GMT -5
I would like everyone to have universal education until the age of 18.
I don't like the thought of Primary School drop outs going to live in the world...
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Post by powerslide on Aug 30, 2006 4:05:42 GMT -5
Well, economically it is ideal to have a "knowledge nation" with better education generally leading to greater productivity and improved living standards. HOWEVER, there does come a point where some people will gain little more out of school and would be better off in employment. But to 18 (with training) would be great. The only problem is governments like stupid people because they can have the wool pulled over their eyes.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 30, 2006 16:45:24 GMT -5
16, why? Because you've learned the basics, you can either choose to advance to college then uni, or go out and get employed/trained. It works very well in England, but if you get below certain marks, you should be made to stay longer.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 30, 2006 21:14:29 GMT -5
None, although it should be strongly recomended and thought of as a social standard. Agreed. I'm homeschooled, and I'd rather not be forced into a public school.
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Post by Hunessai on Aug 30, 2006 21:31:21 GMT -5
I think K-8 is sufficient.
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Post by thaddius on Aug 30, 2006 21:47:33 GMT -5
I think the current system in the United States is lacking techincal education along with a greater emphasis on high level math/science/
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Twitchmonkey
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Aug 30, 2006 22:36:11 GMT -5
Pfft...school. I've learned more at home than I ever did at school, and now watching these wonderful Zbrush tutorials I got online and getting more knowledge from them than I have at any of my college classes, I'm seriously considering dropping out.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 31, 2006 20:43:42 GMT -5
I think the current system in the United States is lacking techincal education along with a greater emphasis on high level math/science/ I actually think we put too much emphasis on those. School provides the basics then if you enjoy certain things you should be allowed to choose what you want to do. It irritates me when I'm forced to waste my time on PE/Maths and Religious education. Ever wonder why people are miserable? It's because 90% of the time we're forced to follow what a government dictates, and what our parents think is best. I don't care if I end up poor, why should I focus on things that bore me shitless? [And before you ask, science is one of my favourite subjects. But some people are more geared toward art/music, and putting them into my class just disrupts it.]
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Post by thaddius on Aug 31, 2006 22:30:15 GMT -5
I don't know if you know about the United States reaction to sputnik or not, regardless, a country is built on engineers. Sputnik spurred the space race, and the AP program. (personally i think the next thing that will do this is when the world reaches peak oil) Both of which have been instrumental in creating much of the technology that we have today. Aside from that when a country has many engineers and scientists they are able to have a stronger economy and eventually a higher standard of living. It really isn't a matter of personal preference, it is a matter of national strength. These countries generally have stronger millitaries.
The vast, vast majority of improvements in standard of living and life expecancy can be traced to science.
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mastab
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Post by mastab on Aug 31, 2006 22:31:15 GMT -5
I think the current system in the United States is lacking techincal education along with a greater emphasis on high level math/science/ I think we should follow Kansas' example. Ditch Science altogether, and teach intelligent design. Math should stay in a simplified form. 5 comandments + 5 comandments = 10 comandments!
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Post by Slipper Eater on Sept 1, 2006 15:28:07 GMT -5
I don't know if you know about the United States reaction to sputnik or not, regardless, a country is built on engineers. Sputnik spurred the space race, and the AP program. (personally i think the next thing that will do this is when the world reaches peak oil) Both of which have been instrumental in creating much of the technology that we have today. Aside from that when a country has many engineers and scientists they are able to have a stronger economy and eventually a higher standard of living. It really isn't a matter of personal preference, it is a matter of national strength. These countries generally have stronger millitaries. The vast, vast majority of improvements in standard of living and life expecancy can be traced to science. Japan, much? America doesn't have the best standard of living if you listen to all the problems with it. Like I say, it's absolute torture when you get stuck in a class full of people with no interest in the subject. It holds other people down. I've walked out of more classes than I can count because people decide to talk and act like children. If your nation isn't happy, it won't matter how strong you are. On the other hand, people would whine if you weren't strong and they'd make themselves unhappy. Look at it this way, depression levels have risen [even counting a population increase] as the standard of living gets higher, as the standard of living gets higher we're forced to take jobs we don't enjoy. [I'm arguing for arguings sake. I'm rather bored.]
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Sept 1, 2006 16:04:05 GMT -5
Actually, Scandinavian countrys have the highest standard of living if I remember correctly. Japan has a number of social problems that hold it back, but I won't get into that. Anyways, for your statistics on depression, I'd counter that the rise in depression has been caused by a higher likelyhood of it getting reported (and treated). As for classes with students that don't want to learn, I agree with you. Still, Thaddius has a very valid point about the lack of high level math and science classes in High School. Of course, the problem isn't just the lack of classes, it is the lack of decent teachers for the classes. The only way to get students interested would be to split students into different groups earlier. Some European countrys (such as Germany, if my memory serves me correctly) already do this. This puts kids in classes they're interested in at a much younger age, so they actually pay attention. The problem with such a system is that: 1. The shortage of decent teachers to teach high level classes and 2. Not many twelve year olds know what they want out of life. The first problem is actually quite easy to solve, but it requires paying teachers more, which would increase taxes, which probably won't happen. [I'm arguing for arguings sake. I'm rather bored.] I never would have guessed.
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Post by lucia on Sept 1, 2006 19:37:53 GMT -5
None, but to be elgible for federal assistance, you must attend school, or have attended school through all 12 grades.
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Post by thaddius on Sept 2, 2006 20:51:01 GMT -5
Japan, much? America doesn't have the best standard of living if you listen to all the problems with it. Like I say, it's absolute torture when you get stuck in a class full of people with no interest in the subject. It holds other people down. I've walked out of more classes than I can count because people decide to talk and act like children. If your nation isn't happy, it won't matter how strong you are. On the other hand, people would whine if you weren't strong and they'd make themselves unhappy. Look at it this way, depression levels have risen [even counting a population increase] as the standard of living gets higher, as the standard of living gets higher we're forced to take jobs we don't enjoy. [I'm arguing for arguings sake. I'm rather bored.] I'm not saying that they should be compulsory, I'm saying that they should be made more available. I am also well aware of the social problems that this country has, also take note that i did not say anything about the standard of living in the united states. It could actually be better, and at this point i don't believe that we have the best engineers.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Sept 4, 2006 12:53:18 GMT -5
Ah, alright Thaddius. I agree, especially about the science biy... My school is still struggling to find enough test tubes for one class. [We have six]
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Kained But Able
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Post by Kained But Able on Sept 4, 2006 15:33:23 GMT -5
I think 16 works well here. Any younger and a lot of people would be leaving school without the maturity to cope in the big wide world. Any older would just mean more people dirupting classes because it doesn't interest them etc. I just wish my school had had more freedom of choice. As Danni said, it's too focused on what other people think we should be doing. I'd have loved to do more things at my school. I'd have loved to do more practical musical stuff for my guitar without being forced into learning the theory stuff for violin too. And I'd have loved to have done a politics course too but my school doesn't do it. One thing I know is going to piss me off at university is that I'll be examined on things that aren't actually relevant to the course I'm doing. I wish my electrical and mechanical engineering degree was based on how well I do at electrical and mechanical engineering, not how well I perform in whatever other modules I'm doing.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 5, 2006 19:47:33 GMT -5
Hell, I don't think education should be compulsory in the first place. Why should it be enforced?
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Sept 5, 2006 21:06:49 GMT -5
Hell, I don't think education should be compulsory in the first place. Why should it be enforced? Because there is probably a 99% chance that an illiterate will end up on welfare.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 5, 2006 21:13:00 GMT -5
Hell, I don't think education should be compulsory in the first place. Why should it be enforced? Because there is probably a 99% chance that an illiterate will end up on welfare. Not sure about there, but here, getting on welfare you need to prove that you are still looking for work. The same could apply to education. The highest purpose of education is preparing someone for work, so the type of education that is given, if not the typical public/private or even home schooled (not saying its a good idea, but there shouldn't be compulsory education) Whats the story with it anyway? If you don't go to school, its against the law? The limit on my knowldege here is that if you miss a certain amount of days in the year, they kick you out... Not really sure of much else onto that. Its not really something to talk about.
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Ratwar
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Post by Ratwar on Sept 5, 2006 21:21:50 GMT -5
Even if we didn't provide welfare to workers that hadn't completed school, it would still make a messy system worse. Such a system would leave home school children and perhaps some private institutions out in the cold as far as welfare goes.
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Post by thaddius on Sept 5, 2006 21:22:28 GMT -5
Give me good reason why education, that benefits society, should not be mandatory.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Sept 5, 2006 21:27:43 GMT -5
Even if we didn't provide welfare to workers that hadn't completed school, it would still make a messy system worse. Such a system would leave home school children and perhaps some private institutions out in the cold as far as welfare goes. Well, if you are being home schooled, the HSLDA would do something in that way. Give me good reason why education, that benefits society, should not be mandatory. Before I answer that, can you tell me what should happen to people who don't go along with this mandatory requirement? I'm about to head off for the night now, so i'll reply on the morrow.
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Post by thaddius on Sept 5, 2006 21:36:27 GMT -5
They should be punished as any other that breaks a law is. But more specificly, I think that they should be forced to do community service untill they would be finished with their school obligations and perhaps forefit access to welfare. But they should be dealt with in the manor which the law perscribes, what ever that may be.
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