The Shakespeare thread

[Samurai Slayer]

Yea, here ya go, coughAMANDAcoughMUMBLEcoughTWITCHcough

[Twitchmonkey]

Why was I included? I just like Tybalt - nay - I am Tybalt. Besides that I'm a plebian.

[Mumble]

Tybalt is cool, but he is no Mercutio (sp?) What an awesome character.

[Twitchmonkey]

Meh, he's good, but not much my style. He is partially responsible for giving Tybalt any significance though, so he can't be too bad.

[thaddius]

Am I missing something? As I recall, Tybalt was not of the pleabian class.

[darkhelmet]

thaddius said:

Am I missing something? As I recall, Tybalt was not of the pleabian class.

Tybalt was a noble, yeah.

And Twitch... Shakespeare wrote plays for the Plebs, so you being one wouldn't matter.

[Avis]

Im reading Romeo and Juliet right now...

[darkhelmet]

avis said:

Im reading Romeo and Juliet right now...

I had to read that three times in school. That's what you get for transferring.

[Cortana]

Romeo and Juliet? Bah.

I'm just a big Hamlet fan. I can't get enough. Five times of my own accord. And if you like that, read "Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead" by Tom Stoppard (for the love of all things good and holy, don't see the movie version he directed). But Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, huge fan. Huge. But not nearly as big as Iago.

Wow for Iago. Just. Just wow. He was so evil. So evil. A rebel without a cause. Like Sephiroth. Just spiteful.

[mastab]

I saw a mixture of Hamlet and Orwell's 1984 last week.

Frailty, thy name is woman.

Something's rotten in the state of Denmark.

[eek]

Hamlet is a bloody good read... I need to get my hands on it again sometime. Macbeth was pretty good too.

As well as them, I've read A Midsummer Night's Dream, The Merchant Of Venice and Romeo & Juliet... they weren't bad, but not quite as enjoyable as the other two, IMHO.

[Twitchmonkey]

Far as I'm concerned, Romeo & Juliet was just okay, but Tybalt was great. Great!

[PrettyBurn]

twitchmonkey said:

Far as I'm concerned, Romeo & Juliet was just okay, but Tybalt was great. Great!

The play is definitely not one of Shakespeare's best. I do love Baz Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet, though.

And as far as the other plays go, I've never read Hamlet (shock, horror). A Midsummer Night's Dream is the first think that I really remember readin, and I've had to read the Tempest, As You Like It and Macbeth for school and been in productions of Twelfth Night and Much Ado About Nothing.

And I'm currently reading some of the Sonnets for my Queer Lit class.

[Cortana]

"Twelfth Night" is probably among my least favourites. Midsummer Night's... that play makes me literally laugh. Out loud. In public. I read it the first time in about an hour. I mean, it has short jokes. How great is that? "Taming of the Shrew" was the same way.

[PrettyBurn]

cortana said:

"Twelfth Night" is probably among my least favourites. Midsummer Night's... that play makes me literally laugh. Out loud. In public. I read it the first time in about an hour. I mean, it has short jokes. How great is that? "Taming of the Shrew" was the same way.

I saw A Midsummer Night's Dream when the 8th grade at my school put it on, and then sat down one night a few nights later and just read it. I was in second grade.

And I reeeeaaally dislike Taming of the Shrew. It has a few funny moments, sure, but mostly it just disturbs and annoys me.

Also, Twelfth Night has a gay pirate. How can that possibly be a bad thing?

[eek]

prettyburn said:

twitchmonkey said:

Far as I'm concerned, Romeo & Juliet was just okay, but Tybalt was great. Great!

The play is definitely not one of Shakespeare's best. I do love Baz Luhrman's Romeo + Juliet, though.

And as far as the other plays go, I've never read Hamlet (shock, horror). A Midsummer Night's Dream is the first think that I really remember readin, and I've had to read the Tempest, As You Like It and Macbeth for school and been in productions of Twelfth Night and Much Ado About Nothing.

And I'm currently reading some of the Sonnets for my Queer Lit class.

You haven't read HAMLET??

You're missing out...

[Cortana]

I'm tainted against "Twelfth Night". That and "Two Gentlemen" I auditioned for under a terrible director, and watched the whole thing get torn to shreads. They're his only plays that can be done in the hands of novices, I think. Anything else requires a lot of expertise.

[PrettyBurn]

cortana said:

I'm tainted against "Twelfth Night". That and "Two Gentlemen" I auditioned for under a terrible director, and watched the whole thing get torn to shreads. They're his only plays that can be done in the hands of novices, I think. Anything else requires a lot of expertise.

Oh, god, I totally understand that. My experience in Much Ado was the worst thing ever... the director had no clue what he was doing. *shudder*

[thevikinggoddess]

I love "Twelfth Night," and I'm really dreading the crime against God & man that "She's the Man" is sure to be. *shudder*

I also love "Merchant" (Portia rocks my socks, and the Prince of Morocco is just ) I also like the social commentary: Shakespeare's knee-jerk anti-Semitism.

I was crazy about "Much Ado" when I first read it, but it's been years. I should rent the movie, if only to make fun of Keanu Reeves.

My absolute favorite, though, is "MacBeth."


On the other hand, I HATE "Taming." He takes a strong woman, and he breaks her. Just...breaks her.

[Cortana]

That's what was interesting about Taming. You hate it because of the social message in its modern context, but you have to think about what it would have impacted in the time it was performed. Even just thinking about how all parts were played by men has an effect on that.

[thevikinggoddess]

cortana said:

That's what was interesting about Taming. You hate it because of the social message in its modern context, but you have to think about what it would have impacted in the time it was performed. Even just thinking about how all parts were played by men has an effect on that.

I prefer to think of the social shakeup (augh, no pun intended, I swear) in "Merchant." Strong women putting things over on their men, one of the most attractive characters is a black man, Shylock is one of Stratford Bill's most complex characters (in my mind)...

[PrettyBurn]

cortana said:

That's what was interesting about Taming. You hate it because of the social message in its modern context, but you have to think about what it would have impacted in the time it was performed. Even just thinking about how all parts were played by men has an effect on that.

How does it matter whether the person he is breaking is a man or a woman? And it just goes to show that something was considered funny at the time, and still is, which was and is degrading and prejudicial. I DO think about historical contexts when I look at old works of literature, art, etc, but I STILL CANNOT STAND THIS PLAY!

[Cortana]

It's important to note that all parts were played by men because it comes full-circle to represent the oppression of women. Shakespeare, you have to know, didn't write for craft, he wrote for money. He was a businessman, and what he put forth to the public reflected collective interests over his own. His dramas, for the most part, escape some of that context (victimized women like Ophelia becoming foils for men's actions, as well as physical consequences of them), though even Macbeth had the magical element to please James I.

His comedies were less complex comparatively, though still entertaining. You have to admire the witticisms and the plays on words all throughout Taming; even when Shakespeare aimed to please a mass audience, he still kept intellectuals in mind. I can't hate the play because I disagree with the ending. Kate, by social standards of the day, had to be married before her sister. She was bitter and jealous that her sister received all of the doting and the love from her father and from strangers, so she grew into a shrew. Petruchio was interesting... he loved her for her dowry, but the hell that he went through wasn't worth the money at all. I agree that in our society she should have been able to keep single status, to be herself in any way she wanted to be, but back in Shakespeare's time, the people wanted to see women keeping their places.

In all, it was an odd piece out for Shakespeare, none of his female characters were ever treated openly in that sense. But think about the case of Ophelia again. She wasn't clever, or special, she'd made the mistake to sleep with Hamlet and believed his promises of marriage. In the end she was utterly as broken as Kate, but in a far more tragic sense. You can't hate Taming just because a woman was mistreated, it was done across the boards.

[PrettyBurn]

cortana said:

It's important to note that all parts were played by men because it comes full-circle to represent the oppression of women. Shakespeare, you have to know, didn't write for craft, he wrote for money. He was a businessman, and what he put forth to the public reflected collective interests over his own. His dramas, for the most part, escape some of that context (victimized women like Ophelia becoming foils for men's actions, as well as physical consequences of them), though even Macbeth had the magical element to please James I.

His comedies were less complex comparatively, though still entertaining. You have to admire the witticisms and the plays on words all throughout Taming; even when Shakespeare aimed to please a mass audience, he still kept intellectuals in mind. I can't hate the play because I disagree with the ending. Kate, by social standards of the day, had to be married before her sister. She was bitter and jealous that her sister received all of the doting and the love from her father and from strangers, so she grew into a shrew. Petruchio was interesting... he loved her for her dowry, but the hell that he went through wasn't worth the money at all. I agree that in our society she should have been able to keep single status, to be herself in any way she wanted to be, but back in Shakespeare's time, the people wanted to see women keeping their places.

In all, it was an odd piece out for Shakespeare, none of his female characters were ever treated openly in that sense. But think about the case of Ophelia again. She wasn't clever, or special, she'd made the mistake to sleep with Hamlet and believed his promises of marriage. In the end she was utterly as broken as Kate, but in a far more tragic sense. You can't hate Taming just because a woman was mistreated, it was done across the boards.

Okay... I don't need to be lectured in history. I understand all of this. And it doesn't change the fact that I do not like Taming of the Shrew. Sure, it has witty moments. Every Shakespeare play does. He was a witty guy. But the fact is there are a few too many scenes that I just can't watch without cringing, so I hate Taming. The same goes for Kiss Me Kate... it has it's moments, but I still don't like the show. The only version that I've ever been able to stand is the very altered 10 Things I Hate About You.

[Cortana]

Kiss Me Kate is intolerable in all accounts, this I will give you. The only blantantly-based (ripped)-off-Shakespeare play I've ever enjoyed was Rosencrantz & Guildenstern.