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Post by Britney on Aug 2, 2006 14:18:56 GMT -5
Do you think people can go from being publically regarded as racist to then being publically regarded as being objective? This question derives from the Mel Gibson thread...
In other words, once someone makes racist statements, what could they do to make you believe they weren't racist? Will you always think them racist? In the Mel Gibson example, do you believe he is still racist against Jews even though he apologized and said racism is wrong? My concern is that, how do you know he isn't just apologizing because he got caught... why would making racist remarks cause one to have a revelation that racism is wrong (which is basically what he is implying...)
Is there such a thing as a recovery from racism? Would you ever believe ANYONE who used to be a racist but claims they aren't anymore? What would someone have to do to convince you that they used to be racist but aren't anymore (and no, I don't think saying your racist comments were the result of too much alcohol would clear someone's name... I'm actually not sure what would...)
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Post by lulu on Aug 2, 2006 14:25:28 GMT -5
Once the world sees you as a racist, it becomes nearly impossible to redeem yourself in the eyes of others especially those of the race whom were offended.
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Post by comike14 on Aug 2, 2006 14:26:53 GMT -5
In my opinion, what you do is far more important than what you say. Someone can repent saying all the racist things he or she ever said, but if he or she continues to be racist, or act in a racist manner, well, that's racism. I think the only way to proove you aren't racist, if it really matters that you proove such a thing, you should get active in working with those of the creed of whom you formally denounced.
And about the alcohol thing, it's really no excuse. In fact, people are generally much more honest while intoxicated--they don't have the inhibitions which would normally prevent them from acting or speaking, so they say or do what's on their mind.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 2, 2006 16:17:46 GMT -5
People should be free to say what they want and have the opinions they want, when we berate someone for not accepting EVERYTHING we're just as bad. Sure, we should attempt to ask why and prove them wrong, but I really dislike when people get this way over what people say. And why should it matter if they can recover? If someone can recover and believe in it themselves, then it shouldn't matter what the public think.
C'mon, most people are hypocrites. 'OMG YOU DISCRIMINATE AGAINST JEWS! HEATHEN!!!' *A few days later* 'Ugh, get away from me you filthy hobo!'
See?
Maybe I missed the point, but self recovery is more important than the public eye.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 2, 2006 18:16:43 GMT -5
Exactly, SE.
That's why I so strongly protest Germany's decisions. Freedom of Expression and Speech are things I like very, very much.
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Post by Britney on Aug 2, 2006 21:30:12 GMT -5
People should be free to say what they want and have the opinions they want, when we berate someone for not accepting EVERYTHING we're just as bad. Sure, we should attempt to ask why and prove them wrong, but I really dislike when people get this way over what people say. And why should it matter if they can recover? If someone can recover and believe in it themselves, then it shouldn't matter what the public think. C'mon, most people are hypocrites. 'OMG YOU DISCRIMINATE AGAINST JEWS! HEATHEN!!!' *A few days later* 'Ugh, get away from me you filthy hobo!' See? Maybe I missed the point, but self recovery is more important than the public eye. Good point... I hadn't thought about it like that... People should certainly be allowed to speak their mind, but with anything verbalized comes consequences that can't be ignored (that's where the public eye comes in). Self recovery is the more important, but the public eye is certainly important to a public figure, who derives their livelihood from what the public thinks of him or her. My question is basically: Once you make it known that you hold a socially unpopular opinion, is it possible to ever recover from that? I can't think of any public figures who have... and so I'm wondering if it is possible.
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Muad'dib
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Post by Muad'dib on Aug 2, 2006 22:18:18 GMT -5
Well, people will probably mostly keep it in the back of their minds, but they might be able to go on to a certain extent. I guess it depends on the behaviour of the person in particular, and how nitpicky people are...
Like things that could even minutely connect to what they had "changed from."
Probably the best way I can explain my opinion on it, really.
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iGuess
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Post by iGuess on Aug 2, 2006 22:38:53 GMT -5
Well, there are a lot of people who I will walk on the other side of the sidewalk just to avoid a smug look from them just because I'm black. But if one of them approached me and said appologized and explained how they finally realized that there was no difference between white and black people except for an appearance caused by evolution because it was an environmental advantage, then I could see them as not racist. Also, to me racism involves hatred and/or a feeling of being superior. If someone made a fried chicken joke, I wouldn't necessarily offended unless I could tell that they actually though of me as less of a person because I like fried chicken.
To roughly quote dave chappelle "Mexican eat rice and beans and stuff like that. Now, thats not a reason to hate somebody. It's FUNNY, but not a reason to hate somebody."
To me, laughing about ridiculous stereotypes is a good way to get rid of them.
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Twitchmonkey
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Aug 2, 2006 22:50:29 GMT -5
The way I see it is this: fried chicken is delicious, and anyone that doesn't like it is either a white supremacist or a communist.
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iGuess
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Posts: 2,384
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Post by iGuess on Aug 2, 2006 22:51:41 GMT -5
Or vegan?
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Twitchmonkey
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I like hookers
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Post by Twitchmonkey on Aug 2, 2006 22:52:36 GMT -5
Vegans are barely human.
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 3, 2006 0:06:00 GMT -5
I choose to take that as a compliment, loathesome as the human race as a whole is and all.
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 3, 2006 2:39:58 GMT -5
The way I see it is this: fried chicken is delicious, and anyone that doesn't like it is either a white supremacist or a communist. Pinko... I insult because I love...
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 3, 2006 5:20:51 GMT -5
Well, there are a lot of people who I will walk on the other side of the sidewalk just to avoid a smug look from them just because I'm black. But if one of them approached me and said appologized and explained how they finally realized that there was no difference between white and black people except for an appearance caused by evolution because it was an environmental advantage, then I could see them as not racist. Also, to me racism involves hatred and/or a feeling of being superior. If someone made a fried chicken joke, I wouldn't necessarily offended unless I could tell that they actually though of me as less of a person because I like fried chicken. To roughly quote dave chappelle "Mexican eat rice and beans and stuff like that. Now, thats not a reason to hate somebody. It's FUNNY, but not a reason to hate somebody." To me, laughing about ridiculous stereotypes is a good way to get rid of them. As much as I don't think racism is right, you shouldn't allow yourself to be brought down by smug looks and smart comments. If it affected your livlihood [such as a boss firing you just for your skin colour] then there'd be a problem. But people discriminate against me and I'm white, I just hold my head high and realise they're a ing idiot for discriminating against skin colour. Religion is another matter though. You can hate people based on their religion if you research it, I genuinely dislike scientologists and if that makes me a bad person then..
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 3, 2006 16:38:12 GMT -5
Scientology kills. Well, the COS kills.
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iGuess
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Post by iGuess on Aug 3, 2006 16:43:19 GMT -5
Religion is another matter though. You can hate people based on their religion if you research it, I genuinely dislike scientologists and if that makes me a bad person then.. But do you hate them just because they are scientologists, or because they are stupid enough to believe scientology? I think there is a difference.
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 3, 2006 18:03:37 GMT -5
Neither.
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iGuess
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Post by iGuess on Aug 3, 2006 18:10:41 GMT -5
Fine
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Post by Slipper Eater on Aug 3, 2006 18:56:12 GMT -5
1. Mindlessly following something without research. 2. Because they willingly submit to brainwashing. 3. Submitting to something that has intolerable practices. 4. This is applied to most of the world.
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 3, 2006 22:28:23 GMT -5
I unfortunately see a lot of racism, sexism and homophobia here in the south.
Just yesterday, while visiting my own family, I heard the following:
My mother apparantly hates the singer Zyara from the new Rockstar tv show. She believes she hasn't been voted out yet because "those damn mexicans" keep voting to keep her on. She went on to express her opinion that they "should all be shot." I was a bit shocked to hear so much racism and hatred over so trivial a thing.
Later in the day my brother interrogated me about being homosexual. He thinks I'm gay because I take up for gays lately, and because I don't have a girlfriend. He then went on to say that if he found out I was gay, he'd "get a bunch of guys together and beat the hell out of me."
I didn't know what to say... why are people that insecure with themselves? Where does this hatred come from? It's not even religion, my usual scapegoat, in this case. Neither my brother nor my mother are the least bit religious. It's just blind, ignorant bigotry. Where's the voice of reason and sanity? Why must it always be drowned by blatant idiocy?
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 4, 2006 3:26:14 GMT -5
That's horrible. I don't really see that kind of thing where I live, but it's there...
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 4, 2006 11:42:51 GMT -5
I live smack in the middle of Tennessee. Ignorance and stupidity are as thick as flies on a corpse around here.
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Post by Leviticus on Aug 4, 2006 21:18:50 GMT -5
Recover completely? I don't think so. Once the cat is let out of the bag, coughs up a nasty hairball and scratches the furniture, even if you manage to stuff it back in the bag, there are still signs left around for others to see. ;D
-Levi
edit for spelling
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Gold_skywalker
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Post by Gold_skywalker on Aug 5, 2006 0:24:54 GMT -5
Hm, people always complain about Texas, but I've never really seen too much hate. Sans proposition #42.
Went through Nashville once, that place always tries to kill us...
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pilaf
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Post by pilaf on Aug 5, 2006 13:53:00 GMT -5
I can blend in pretty well here as long as nobody mentions religion or politics. I wear jeans and (fake) leather boots, and plaid t button up shirts a lot of the time, invariably with a ball cap with longish hair hanging out the back. I look like a redneck, and the accent helps complete the disguise.... the liberal side only shows when I get into discussions with people.
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