Random Japanese Sadism

[Britney]

Warning: Don't view. Period.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaDcDwwt6as&search=slaughter

I came across this tonight while searching for old videos from the band Slaughter. Sure its political, but its kinda sick (in that "can't turn away from the trainwreck" sort of fashion). Anyway, I felt bad being the only one with polluted eyes, so here you are!

[Muad'dib]

Saw the title, and i'm not going to watch it. I think whatever it is might be bad enough that this thread will be locked, and that vid edited out of your post, though.

[Britney]

Oh its not that bad, if you are familiar with Japan and the violent twists those guys are. SS will get it...

But if you don't know Japan, well... this is not where you should be getting your first impressions!

[Vinya]

graveflower said:

Oh its not that bad, if you are familiar with Japan and the violent twists those guys are. SS will get it...

But if you don't know Japan, well... this is not where you should be getting your first impressions!

yeah because those Japanese are all crazy, unstable sonsabitches and need to be locked away

I didn't have audio on my computer. What was the purpose of the dolphins being slaughtered? I know the Japanese still whale and eat sharks....as long as its got some purpose for it I can hardly classify it as saying a whole nation is sadistic......moving this to debate.

[Gold_skywalker]

Is this a clip from ichigi the Killer or something?

[thaddius]

Those sick sons of es...

[Slipper Eater]

Oh, please. Let me just say I'm against animal cruelty first, there is nothing more horrid than animal cruelty to me. The video alone would make me sick, but to;

1) Declare a nation sadistic for something WE would do if it were legal, is wrong.
2) To say we treat our animals better is actually a load of BS. Ever been to a chicken farm? Their legs rot slowly away, they sit in the own urine all day, they're trapped in TINY cages that allow for no movement. Many of them suffocate, they're pumped full of drugs to increase egg output and iirc, this shortens their lives.
3) How are dolphins any better than fish? If they get their throat slit, they'll die quickly at least. Ever been on a fishing trawler? They don't gut or slit the fishies throats, they sit there suffocating too. If they don't suffocate or die of shock, they get frozen to death.

[Britney]

Japan not sadistic?! They are THE most sadistic country I've ever encountered. Where else are you going to find the widely accepted mentality to kill yourself in order to save yourself from dishonor? Ever notice how alot of Japanese movies start off with someone dying. Or how alot of music can sound very innocent and sweet, yet when you translate the lyrics you find out its entirely about death?

There are certainly other values the Japanese are known for (Loyalty and Dedication), but to say that their "warrior" culture does not exhibit a popular acceptance of sadistic violence (to a higher degree than most if not all nations today) is incorrect. Actually, it is the extreme nature of their social values, and how they differ from virtually everyone else, that I find one of the most interesting things about that country.


EDIT: Perhaps I believe they are the most sadistic because of their mass media I have been exposed to. Personally I sometimes enjoy watching violence, and I search for things that are of an extreme nature. Coincidently or not, I find a majority of violent forms of media come from Japan.

[ExtraCheeZ]

Its their culture.

We capture hundreds of tuna and drag them back to the shore in a anet then let them all slowly die.

We capture millions of pwns and do the same thing.

We slaughter cows one after the other.

Its our culture.

[Britney]

extracheez said:

Its their culture.

We capture hundreds of tuna and drag them back to the shore in a anet then let them all slowly die.

We capture millions of pwns and do the same thing.

We slaughter cows one after the other.

Its our culture.

True, but our culture doesn't accept our sadism as much. I will bet you there are ten times more animal rights activists in the US than in Japan. Many of the violent movies from Japan could never pass the strict censors they have here. Suicide here is seen as "weak". Criminals rarely ever confess to their crimes here, instead they fight it out in court. Ever read criminal reports from Japan? A majority of them plead guilty right off the bat, which is why there also aren't very many lawyers in Japan.

[ExtraCheeZ]

graveflower said:

extracheez said:

Its their culture.

We capture hundreds of tuna and drag them back to the shore in a anet then let them all slowly die.

We capture millions of pwns and do the same thing.

We slaughter cows one after the other.

Its our culture.

True, but our culture doesn't accept our sadism as much. I will bet you there are ten times more animal rights activists in the US than in Japan. Many of the violent movies from Japan could never pass the strict censors they have here. Suicide here is seen as "weak". Criminals rarely ever confess to their crimes here, instead they fight it out in court. Ever read criminal reports from Japan? A majority of them plead guilty right off the bat, which is why there also aren't very many lawyers in Japan.

Why is it sadistic to beleive there is honor in suicide? Sadism is take pleasure in something elses pain. Not giving your enemy a chance to admit his defeat and go out with dignity. Suicide here is considered weak because its seen as an easy escape, in japan its not an escape, its a different culture.

Violent movies... thats not sadism. Thats an action movie. The reason we have so many cencors is because our parents cant keep a hold ont heir children and their are afraid that little billy will be traumatised and murder a bunch of people. Take the italians for example, you could kill, skin and take the meat off a sheep right infront of a 5 year old and they wouldnt think anything of it, but if you did that infront of the middle aged american they would be horrified. Which is the better culture? Those who deal with food, or those who are afraid of a dead peice of meat?

And your faulting them for having a better legal system?

[bigphatty]

I'd eat dolphin if it was my culture. To think sadistic of one's culture without a true understanding is stupid.

[thaddius]

slippereater said:

Oh, please. Let me just say I'm against animal cruelty first, there is nothing more horrid than animal cruelty to me. The video alone would make me sick, but to;

1) Declare a nation sadistic for something WE would do if it were legal, is wrong.
2) To say we treat our animals better is actually a load of BS. Ever been to a chicken farm? Their legs rot slowly away, they sit in the own urine all day, they're trapped in TINY cages that allow for no movement. Many of them suffocate, they're pumped full of drugs to increase egg output and iirc, this shortens their lives.
3) How are dolphins any better than fish? If they get their throat slit, they'll die quickly at least. Ever been on a fishing trawler? They don't gut or slit the fishies throats, they sit there suffocating too. If they don't suffocate or die of shock, they get frozen to death.

One thing you are missing is that dolphins are probably the smartest sea anmials, and perhaps are as intelligent as apes are.

[bigphatty]

thaddius said:

slippereater said:

Oh, please. Let me just say I'm against animal cruelty first, there is nothing more horrid than animal cruelty to me. The video alone would make me sick, but to;

1) Declare a nation sadistic for something WE would do if it were legal, is wrong.
2) To say we treat our animals better is actually a load of BS. Ever been to a chicken farm? Their legs rot slowly away, they sit in the own urine all day, they're trapped in TINY cages that allow for no movement. Many of them suffocate, they're pumped full of drugs to increase egg output and iirc, this shortens their lives.
3) How are dolphins any better than fish? If they get their throat slit, they'll die quickly at least. Ever been on a fishing trawler? They don't gut or slit the fishies throats, they sit there suffocating too. If they don't suffocate or die of shock, they get frozen to death.

One thing you are missing is that dolphins are probably the smartest sea anmials, and perhaps are as intelligent as apes are.

So you're telling me if I take a dump in my hand and fling it at you I'm a genious?

[thaddius]

No that makes you a sick bastard.

[Slipper Eater]

thaddius said:

slippereater said:

Oh, please. Let me just say I'm against animal cruelty first, there is nothing more horrid than animal cruelty to me. The video alone would make me sick, but to;

1) Declare a nation sadistic for something WE would do if it were legal, is wrong.
2) To say we treat our animals better is actually a load of BS. Ever been to a chicken farm? Their legs rot slowly away, they sit in the own urine all day, they're trapped in TINY cages that allow for no movement. Many of them suffocate, they're pumped full of drugs to increase egg output and iirc, this shortens their lives.
3) How are dolphins any better than fish? If they get their throat slit, they'll die quickly at least. Ever been on a fishing trawler? They don't gut or slit the fishies throats, they sit there suffocating too. If they don't suffocate or die of shock, they get frozen to death.

One thing you are missing is that dolphins are probably the smartest sea anmials, and perhaps are as intelligent as apes are.

If chickens were intelligent, I'm sure we'd still eat them. And some cultures eat apes. Your brains have nothing to do with it, they're gonna become food like every other animal.

Then again, I'm not against cannibalism, so intelligence holds no reason to not kill something.

[thaddius]

slippereater said:

thaddius said:

One thing you are missing is that dolphins are probably the smartest sea anmials, and perhaps are as intelligent as apes are.

If chickens were intelligent, I'm sure we'd still eat them. And some cultures eat apes. Your brains have nothing to do with it, they're gonna become food like every other animal.

Then again, I'm not against cannibalism, so intelligence holds no reason to not kill something.

I just think out of all anmials that we kill, Dolphins and Pigs are two that I do not agree with. They both have highly devolped brains, unlike the majority of fish and other livestock. I would rather eat off of the lower end of the food and intelegence chain.

[Slipper Eater]

I don't actually agree with eating meat, but hell... Meat is meat is meat. Why be fussy?

I always thought humans had two criteria: survival and if it tastes good, to the slaughterhouse you go!

[Britney]

extracheez said:

graveflower said:

True, but our culture doesn't accept our sadism as much. I will bet you there are ten times more animal rights activists in the US than in Japan. Many of the violent movies from Japan could never pass the strict censors they have here. Suicide here is seen as "weak". Criminals rarely ever confess to their crimes here, instead they fight it out in court. Ever read criminal reports from Japan? A majority of them plead guilty right off the bat, which is why there also aren't very many lawyers in Japan.

Why is it sadistic to beleive there is honor in suicide? Sadism is take pleasure in something elses pain. Not giving your enemy a chance to admit his defeat and go out with dignity. Suicide here is considered weak because its seen as an easy escape, in japan its not an escape, its a different culture.

Violent movies... thats not sadism. Thats an action movie. The reason we have so many cencors is because our parents cant keep a hold ont heir children and their are afraid that little billy will be traumatised and murder a bunch of people. Take the italians for example, you could kill, skin and take the meat off a sheep right infront of a 5 year old and they wouldnt think anything of it, but if you did that infront of the middle aged american they would be horrified. Which is the better culture? Those who deal with food, or those who are afraid of a dead peice of meat?

And your faulting them for having a better legal system?

Faulting them! I don't know where you'd get such a notion; they have a much more honorable legal system than over here where if someone trips s/he is encouraged to sue the road-maker, their shoe-maker, and anyone in between.

I think sadism and masochism go together (afterall they are polar opposites). The Japanese notion of honorable suicide, the "produce til you drop from fatigue" work ethic, the fact that Koizumi suspended use of all public air conditioners last summer because it was too expensive, all indicate to me an deeper social mentality: Pain is healthy, and it is honorable to feel it, deal with it, and dish it out.

While "action" movies in the U.S. are more flashy explosions and computer animation (visual) than story-oriented, Japanese action movies are more raw and intricate. The violence in them is more believable. Emotional. Deep and comprehensive. Realistic.

What would you say is more sadistic: cutting off a classmate's (and former friend's) head, hoisting it up on the school fence, and then admitting to doing so nonchalantly to police, or shooting up your classmates indiscriminantly before taking your own life so as not to face responsibility for your actions (Columbine). I think the former to be more sadistic for the same reason I think the movies to be. Of course this is but one example, but if you follow crimes in Japan they just seem (to me) to be more violent, sadistic, and personal - and the criminal almost always takes full responsibility; no excuses are made.

Maybe its because they don't allow guns... but I think there is a deeper, cultural acceptance of violence (sadism and masochism) that is not as widespread in the U.S.

[Mistress.Nairakarn]

This is one, of those rare occasions, where I strongly agree with you on something. That we both probably frown upon such.

Unlike Thaddius, I am rather uncertain about Pigs, and my feelings towards apes aren't quite as strong, but apparently from many very reliant sources... Dolphins, and whales, are very intelligent, at the very least, I think they should get much more respect, from anyone who values sentience in lifeforms that is.

Another thing is, they are both intelligent, and physically strong... I don't respect a creature, just out of it's strength, and I respect intelligence more than strength... But a lifeform, both very intelligent, and which is very strong physically? (The latter trait being something, I'd say humans lack), I think they should be far more respected.

Personnally if I had it my way, (say I was very high in political power) I would only allow such killings, out of self defense (If some freak accident happened), or if they could PROVE it was very much clearly a accident, not due to carelessness, which would be unlikely I think. Killer Whales, fighting other species, of whales, (or dolphins), is one thing, but with humans I'd assume people should, just mind their own bussiness.

I see nothing to gain, from it... Humans are land animals, dolphins are sea animals, and are usually none hostile towards humans (Well not unless someone does something to prevoke it, which would probably be much harder than with most creatures), they don't have some sort of food source, you cannot get from other lifeforms to survive, plus they are highly intelligent, and it would seem wastefull to kill them.

Why kill something, which almost certainly isn't a threat, doesn't need to be killed, to cure some disease or another, and most of all such a (I'd say) highly accomplished species?, I would consider such, very wastefull, and a shame. It's not common for something, to be so intelligent, plus they unlike humans, are stronger physically, and don't need, materials to survive, and I assume cause nowhere near as much destruction... So I view such as simply wastefull, and in a sense, a less accomplished lifeform, killing off a more advanced one.

(Yes these are just my opinions, and I am not going to get in any more "Whats the most advanced species debate', but to me might does not equal right, and in a sense whales, and dolphins are very advanced lifeforms, I'd consider them more advanced than humans in some ways, and such a thing, something of rarity, being self righteously killed, by a in some ways, less advanced lifeform, as very wastefull, and rather sad.

(By advanced, I mean being able to survive, in harsh waters, survive without tools, AND have high intelligence, as well as advanced, communication, combined with that). Theres my opinion there, and no I'm not going to have any more, debates, about rather humans, or highly intelligent none human lifeforms, are more advanced, it's caused me enough conflicts, at TES).

As for Japanese suicide, I would equate that, to masochism, if anything... But not sadism, unless one combined murder with it ahead of time, or did it for the sole purpose, of hurting loved ones.

Not sure what to say, about the rest.

[comike14]

I just watched it. I'm a hunter, and I eat meat. But I would never, ever treat another living thing like that. I am appalled, disgusted, and outraged.

[bigphatty]

comike14 said:

I just watched it. I'm a hunter, and I eat meat. But I would never, ever treat another living thing like that. I am appalled, disgusted, and outraged.

Why? That's their heritage. It's what they were brought up to do. I guarantee you, if you were from there you would see absolutely nothing wrong in eating dolphin. I see something wrong with it because it's "not" my heritage. But, at the same time I keep an open mind because I realise it's not they who are the screwed up people it's their culture, and it's the only one they're ever going to know unless of course they move out of country.

[comike14]

bigphatty said:

comike14 said:

I just watched it. I'm a hunter, and I eat meat. But I would never, ever treat another living thing like that. I am appalled, disgusted, and outraged.

Why? That's their heritage. It's what they were brought up to do. I guarantee you, if you were from there you would see absolutely nothing wrong in eating dolphin. I see something wrong with it because it's "not" my heritage. But, at the same time I keep an open mind because I realise it's not they who are the screwed up people it's their culture, and it's the only one they're ever going to know unless of course they move out of country.

Eating it is one thing. Did you actually watch the video? Did you see how they kill them? They don't make it quick, not at all.

EDIT: And heritage has nothing to do with right and wrong. The way they do it is wrong.

[Gold_skywalker]

There is no factual right and wrong.

As he said, it's Heritage, it's their up-bringing.

In Laos, they've been brung up to kill a man for intruding on his hunting grounds. This recently happened in the United States by a Laosian man. He was sentenced to Life.

The law will deal with them if they are breaking it. Otherwise, no matter how morally outraged you or I am, it will stay that way.

[thaddius]

They are breaking the law, yet the japanese governmet ignores the international bans of hunting marine mamals.